I have been deleted this set fo rules violation and have not received a comment or reason or proof from anyone. Martian I understand your busy, ive messaged you. You replied about what server and then nothing. My appeal has been pending for mote than 7 days, i think its just pathetic. Even if you reinstate now ill have missed any chance for a decent finish. Not that i would of but that's not the point.

this kind of behaviour is not okay when players spend hours and hours on this game and then BOOM!

the game has dropped another 100 countries and i predict within 12 months this game will have fluffed itself to sub 200 players.
and nobody really loves to play by themselves lol

regardless of what anyone says, i played all x, never suicided on anyone, only missile dumped when guys quad tap and outrun retals.
anyways for what its worth i wish everyone all the best in whatever there doing. Finally at a place where as much as i enjoyed this game, i have accepted the fact that it wont change, and the ones who can force Chang, at the expense of a few either are too busy with r/l or dont give a fluff and don't care to see it grow in any capacity.

It's really easy to outrun retals when your retaller has no weapons tech and no offensive allies, you know.

Farewell; again.

thats pretty bad moderation. 7 days without an answer

hey look i agree with blid on something

7 days is ok 8 days would be bad. >.<

I've always said it'd make thinks much easier if they simply could just put a reason in and when you try to log in that reason is displayed before you. Why does every person who gets deleted have to hunt down and pester a mod about it. The reason should be displayed! Would save them a lot of work at the end of the day.

Someone gets deleted and you guys accept the story of the deleted player with no questions? Has timmie earned that kind of credibility?

I'm asking honestly, 'cause as far as I know he's just some guy in a two-bit tag who posts on AT every so often.

Edit: I'll add to that.

martian is a guy I've known for close to 15 years now, and have met a few times in real life. I wouldn't say I know him really well given that most of my interactions with him have been online etc, but my impression of him has always that he's really fluffing smart and he's got his priorities straight; he knows his fun and he knows his work and he is good at both. Not only that, but other people whose commitment to the survival of this game I respect (yay admins!) picked martian to be the game mod, which suggests to me that I'm not the only person who thinks highly of martian.

So, who the hell is timmie and why the hell are people taking his word on this over martian's obvious action? Has timmie really earned that?

Doesn't anyone who is deleted deserve a response within 7 days? Just a question iccyh. You're not judge and jury.

Purple.
RR.

Requiem: I'm not trying to be judge and jury, I'm asking who timmie is that everyone is apparently convinced that he's totally above board and has been wronged while martian is the bad guy.

If, and I do mean if as this does not appear to be a certainly to me, timmie didn't get a reply it suggests to me there might be something else going on here besides the mods being incompetent.

If you read the original thread about this, iccyh is ragging on the Titans there too. They clearly want to know what happened, timmie himself posted in that thread, a polite post from him too...iccyh do you really think they are PRETENDING martian never wrote back when he in fact wrote back? That just seems far less likely than not getting a response.

Well, what's more likely here?

A cheater who has been busted is lying about what has happened, or that an intelligent, diligent, serious, and competent moderator is doing a bad job?

I'm asking about timmie's credibility, because that is definitely at issue here, and based on my interactions with Titans he has absolutely none. All I've seen from Titans is that they're a mediocre group of players with a limited grasp on how the alliance game works, and a limited grasp on the concept of consequences.

Edit: To be clear, I'd very much love to harass Titans and I'll make no secret of that, but all of my points about moderation and trust have nothing to do with Titans specifically and everything to do with what I think is good moderation policy in general; I'd make these arguments regardless of who was fluffing on AT about their precious little country being deleted.

Seriously, how the hell do you accidentally manage to get your country deleted? It seems to me like you'd have to do something really obvious.

Burka Time!!

Where are the Lords of the Underworld?

bonus

Did you use a different computer to play from? All those things you say you didn't do have nothing to do with deletions as they are not game rules.

Cannon got deleted in Primary a set or two ago. By the time his appeal was heard and he was reinstated, he had already left. His situation is hardly unique. The fact is, plenty of countries have been reinstated once the case has been made. But it is tough to make a case when you don't even know what it is you are appealing. The fact that I support Timmie being informed of his indiscretion does not make me inherently anti-moderator or pro-cheater. Timmie's credibility and the fact that he is a relative nobody should not change how this case is handled.

I agree that moderators should be proactive when they make deletions, they can take the time to make a simple forum message to the offending player stating the reason for the action taken, i.e ..
" You're country #xxx on server (x) has been deleted due to violation of game rule (y), you may appeal using the appeal process, which is not located on the AT forum. "Your Mod cazar , Martian" Have a swirvey day!

Is it against the rules to log in from a different computer?

not unless some1 else plays ee with that computer then both countries go bye-bye unless players are safelisted.

You've admitted in a previous post you don't know timmy so you are in fact speaking out of your ass. Just an observation of mine.

Just because I feel like a reason should be given up front and any appeals should be replied to promptly doesn't mean I am anti-mod or pro-cheater or whatever else you want to spin it as. It's called customer service. As long as my adblocker is off I am a paying customer. Piss me off and I'll play with it on so that at least you wont make ANY money off me :D

The fact that the game is now free of multies has amazed me since I came back to it - and makes the game a whole lot more satisfying to play.

So, if part of the cost of that is an occasional deletion which turns out to be over zealous, (which I have no doubt this one will prove to be) then I guess we need to be accepting of that.

I am unwilling to be critical of the time it takes Martian to get to this until such time as I am willing to offer to take on the job myself and to do better. Which, lacking his public spirit, is likely to be never.

Furious999 even if you wanted to you'd never be allowed to do the job yourself.

Requiem: The fact that I know timmie (and I can at least spell his name right) doesn't mean that I'm talking out of my ass, it means that I don't know why he should be considered credible.

So far, no one has given me any answer on that front.

He's credible because if he was lying martian could just say "nah i told him what happened, he's full of fluff" and yet it's been 60 hours since timmie posted in the other thread and 8 days since the other thread was created and martian hasn't said anything and this is not an aberration, there was a time last month when martian said he would post about team server deletions "tonight" and it took him over a week.

We went over this in the other thread. AT isn't the appropriate venue for moderator responses and I have no idea why people think threads on AT about these kind of issues deserve any kind of response.

What you're really saying is that because timmie is complaining about something you disagree with about the moderation policy, you're willing to be sympathetic to him despite the fact he may well be a cheater.

Your priorities are messed.

I went and checked for you. It's a legit deletion -- you certainly played from the same computer as another player.

And there you have it.

A player gets deleted. He doesn't know why. He asks. He doesn't get told.

I say this is a problem, and you say MY priorities are messed.

You are so far from objective on this, you need to step outside yourself and look at it from a point of view besides that of martian's friend and a hater of timmie and the Titans. I don't even know who those guys are, I just think it's essential that people at least be told why they were deleted. Many people would quit the game forever at the hands of this treatment, it's not good. You're a liberal through and through, you care more about the form of the inquiry and the venue in which it's taking place than actual fair treatment.

and im willing to give the mods the benefit of the doubt on the deletion itself, they may or may not have had good reasons, but let's assume they did. great. but that does not justify leaving the player's questions unaddressed for over a week. let's be real, it's been like 8-9 days. in this time martian could easily have posted in one of the threads "ive sent you a PM explaining this. the decision is final" or anything, but it's been nothing but silence, probably because he hasn't looked at it. that's not a judgment of martian being unfair or bad, just, i dont know, busy or something, but it's not good for the game.

If that is what had happened, that would probably not be a good thing. I totally agree. What I don't get is why you assumed that happened. You're taking timmie's word for it that he has no idea why he was deleted, when there is absolutely no reason to view anything he says with anything other than skepticism.

Given what Pang is saying, what appears much more likely to me is that this guy got busted for cheating he actually did, then decided to come plead innocence and give the mods fluff on AT anyway, since there's always someone willing to give the admins and mods fluff on AT who'd give him an ear.

That was the scenario I was concerned about, and it looks like that is how it has played out. The more the mods and admins post to AT to justify these kinds of decisions, the more people are going to expect it, and the more threads like this we'll see if/when cheaters get busted. This is a losing scenario for the admins and mods.

Somehow i didnt see pang's post, im glad somebody eventually stepped up to confirm the deletion, and im not surprised it was a legit deletion either. doesnt change the other stuff i said, but THanks pang.

iccyh he came to the boards as a last resort. You're deff one sided. You do not like to agree with anyone. I'd love to be married to you.

Requiem: You're taking his word for this even after Pang has said he was playing from the same computer as someone else?

There is nothing timmie has done that should have people automatically believing that he did he said he did, and there is no reason for us to be discussing this on AT as it just encourages more of this in the future.

If I were a potential cheater who wanted to troll the admins and mods, this thread would be a gift.

Playing from the same computer does not make someone a cheat. It gives rise to a suspicion but nothing more.

This episode seems to me to strengthen the case for a closed thread giving the grounds for the deletion. In this case it would take the mod just a very short time to create a thread, identify the set and player and to say "deleted by reason of playing from the same computer without any safe listing in place."

If the same message could be communicated to the player so much the better but evidently the player still has access here so they would see the locked thread anyway.

This does not require the mod to get involved on AT. If a thread is started they just stay out of it.

Playing from the same computer without being on the safe list is against the rules, and not following the rules is cheating. It doesn't necessarily mean timmie is a multi (though I suspect he is), but he is certainly a cheater.

Having mods post on AT does two things:

1. It makes people think they have more information about the topic than they really do.
You see this here on this thread where people read timmie's post, take it at face value, and judge accordingly. They don't consider that they don't have all of the information and that maybe timmie isn't entirely credible.
Even with Pang's post, I don't assume that's all of the story here; it is entirely possible that there is more to all of this, but there is no way for me to know as long as I'm not an admin/mod or timmie. I (and everyone else on AT) am in no position to judge, but that certainly don't stop everyone from rushing to throw in their two cents, which are usually critical of the admins and mods.
If the mods post to AT, you risk similar situations where people assume they know more than they do based on the post, and judge accordingly. And that's what everyone here really loves to do more than anything else: judge others negatively.

2. It encourages more threads about cheating and deletion on AT
If something changes in those threads, you can bet someone will comment on it if the deletions happen to countries of any note, and because the mods are now notifying people of the deletions via AT rather than just letting them happen, they'll invariably be mentioned in the ensuing discussion. It isn't necessary for every deletion event to require a comment from the mods, or their involvement in a thread on AT and that's likely the direction this will go.

I get that it seems to be working in express, but the alliance server isn't express and there is a very different dynamic here than there is there. I don't think anyone is in a position where we should be demanding anything of the mods, given the current situation.

I don't know about anyone else, but I can't find the proper forum handles with the way this system is setup. Usually their game account matches the handle, but not always, and the search function for handles is broken for me right now...

But yeah, also speaking personally, I generally respond if someone messages me directly.

Them making a small pittance off of your page views doesn't mean you're a paying customer. Yes, I realize that was perhaps tongue in cheek, but it's a pretty silly statement to make even so.

Nearly right.

To be called cheating it must be deliberate and have a dishonest intent.

Your post is defamatory and you have put Pang into the position of having published it.

Tldr

Well it wasn't meant to be a very serious statement but I digress...

Other than the fact that there are countless examples of this happening to established players and those players eventually being reinstated. I don't necessarily believe that means it was an unjustified deletion (especially since this case proved it was not), but I do believe that a precedent exists. We know for a fact that nobody is immediately notified, and many have had issues being informed. The fact that it happened to someone who doesn't frequent the boards like the rest of us does not make them any more culpable.

As long as we can see purples on the score page, deletions will be talked about. I'm in favor of eliminating the wild speculation of the community at large (read: transparency), but I find it completely ridiculous that the owner of the deleted country themselves are left to the same level of wild speculation.

Oh come on, the rules are crystal clear and placed in an impossible to miss spot:


I created a country on Express right now just to demonstrate. Before I can even go to the first screen where I can actually play, that pops up as a reminder. The only way timmie could have missed that is if he's illiterate, which appears not to be the case. There is no way I can think of that someone could make an unintentional mistake on this particular count, and unless you can come up with some plausible explanation for how someone could miss that then your comment about my statement being defamatory is both insulting and ridiculous.

hours and hours on this game? most decent strats only require 15 minutes a day... get a job if you want to waste hours and hours doing something... it'll at least pay minimum wage.

http://www.earthempires.com/...purple-there-32499#586429

In other words, previously established precedents appear to take intent into account. If not, then LaF has received preferential treatment.

Pang given that Martian has not responded to me and nobody has still given me evidence can you respond to my pm please. I do not see how what you claim is possible. Pm sent. Thank you.

I received no PM :-/

But I can post this in general: our policy has always been not discuss evidence as to not allow those breaking the rules to break them more effectively in the future. This isn't a court of law where the mods present their case as to why you should be deleted and you defend yourself based on mod evidence... this is automated scripts telling me which users played from the same computer/could be the same person based on a number of criteria. If you were deleted for this reason but often play from another player's house (or in the same location in general) you can be safelisted with this user and the scripts won't flag the overlap for deletion.

Viceroy:
I wasn't even playing then, and am not here to defend every actions the admins/mods take, but rather to defend the principle that the admins/mods shouldn't be required to post to the forums, reply on the forums, or provide any more information they deem appropriate in any given circumstance.

Your own post serves as a further example of this:
If Pang had just reinstated the countries and not posted to the forum, you'd have no grounds to make any accusation about supposed preferential treatment.

timmie: given that there have now been three people independently who have checked and have all reached the same conclusion i suggest you give it a rest.
As a general principal mods are under no obligation to respond to a forum post and generally don't because it's feeding the trools.
Or to quote a favorite movie of mine: "you have only two things: Jack and fluff and jack has left the building".