How is our actions against SOL a double standard?

a) back when all this started SOL was the much worse offender
b) back when this all started SOL was much larger than sof
c) SoF has always been much more open to communication than SOL is (at least hey always have been with LaF)
d) at the time most perceived SOL to be the "ringleader" of these actions, of sorts.
e) when all of this came to head SOL was planning to kill the entire server in a single reset. SoF was not part of this plan.
f) everything that is happening now is just carry over from the initial SOL gangbang which SOL was targeted for due to a - e listed above.

But I guess it is LaF's duty to prevent the biggest and the smallest of offenders all at the same time, all on our own eh?

Priorities have to be made, lines have to be drawn. Our priority is dealing with the biggest problem first and foremost, that was (and still is, given that they have refused to claim they'll stop) SOL.

LaF was talking with the likes of Sanct, Omega, Evo etc. about a "netting coalition to defend against war alliances attacking us for no reason" for over a year before things actually came to head with SOL. It is hard to argue it is a double standard used to our advantage is light of those facts.

None of the other netters would provide support in actions though, only words. SoF however has been there. As such I would argue they've done far more to help netters than they have to hurt them over the last year, even if they have picked on PDM in recent resets.

You know absolutely nothing about what LaF cares about. We care about winning first and foremost yes. But we have had tags come to us before in dire straights about being farmed, and we have granted pacts before for no reason other than to ensure the alliance didn't fold as a result of us not pacting them.

You know not of what you speak.

"MD has nothing to complain about as their issues with LaF were created entirely by them".

Dude, Hanlong was regularly telling MD/SoF and others on "our side" things he could not possibly know. Was I to know he/TC was hacking Boxcar? Not until those logs came out but it was crystal clear to me something shady was going on several resets ago.

My previous mistrust of LaF (thank TC and yourself for that) maybe peaked my interest in these items moreso than others like SoF/Omega/LCN in the same chats. He also regularly told me in 1v1 convo's things he should not have by all rights known.

Irrespective of this, the fact that MD wanted to drop LaF as an FDP is not somehow a justification for LaF cheating - "of MD's own making". This just shows how ridiculous your arguments are.

So if MD stayed FDP's with LaF, LaF would have cheated but not against MD. When MD dropped the FDP it was now "of our own making" and therefore ok.

Dude I don't think you understand what it is like to play for an alliance that is anti-cheat. It doesn't matter if you cheated against us or PDM or SOL you were cheating and there is no place in the game for that.

The one recurring theme with LaF since the beginning of this game has been a complete unwillingness to be accountable for its actions. From pact breaking to cheating. And everytime (as I said in my post when this all came out) you guys do the same old song and dance. I'm sorry we didn't mean it, it was only one person (heard that with TC as well!). Roll forward 1 reset and its business as usual - deflecting attention, claiming it didn't happen or wasn't as bad as it was.

I wonder about some of you guys in RL, does anyone take responsibility for their actions at all? How old are you people - come on.

Ridiculous.

Oh and just incase it is not clear for the morons. MD and I stands with Detmer and PDM 100% on this.

Fixed that for you.

Seriously. I provided what he said, and not just a one-line snippet, but context. I let him say his point, rather than point out his false indignation and how he is making cover up lies, I dropped it, because my "points" are just as proveable as his. Anyways. I am done with this point, regardless of the response.

(and if you don't understand the literary devices I employed, don't bother responding)

Cheating had absolutely nothing to do with it.

You had a problem with us from day 1, and you know it.

The very first time you and I spoke about game related matters after you came back to the game you told me that "All LaF leaders are assholes, including you". <-- as if this is something you say to your FDP, your next comment was to ask us for strat help LOL. As if I was going to go out of my way to help you after you made such a statement.

It was clear to LaF what your intentions were right at that moment. After that conversation LaF placed MD on the "need to watch carefully, may be a problem in the future" list. Turns out we were right eh?

Hell back in 2006 you and I used to fight like cats and dogs over in game issues, but we were actually friends outside of the game. Talked a lot about non game issues, played yahoo games together etc.

When you came back I tried to be cordial and talk to you about what what had happened in each other's lives since the last time we spoke etc. You wanted none of it.

So it was obvious to me what you intentions were from the very first day. To claim it had anything to do with a sense of cheating you gained from Hanlong or whatever else is ridiculous, the proof was already in the pudding regarding your feelings.

You go on and on about how I'm a cheat, but you've never provided any proof of such things (which makes sense, you can't prove something that isn't true). The biggest claim of immorality you could place on me based on personal interaction was the conflict over whether LaF and MD had a pact or not back in 2006 when we first FSed MD. As I recall there was strong disagreement on whether there was a pact, and there still is today so yeah... You prove nothing there either.

We were friends until you lied to me in 2006 and let TC break the uNAP you signed with me. You told me as much privately at the time. Letting TC bot MD the next set sealed our relationship. But these things are history.

For what its worth I don't think you ever ran multi's or hacked. I just think you were the guy who had the power in LaF to make people like TC and Hanlong accountable for their actions and never did. I feel like you let people cheat under your nose and I know you are way to smart to not know what's going on.

To be 100% clear I don't think you personally cheat but I think you've let others cheat on your watch.

And yes, I would like to again be personal friends with you - miss our chess battles.

Perhaps one day we'll both quit the game? In the meantime when I get back home i'll hit you up for blitz.

I think it is still pretty clearly a double standard. SoF surpassed SoL, yet you remain fixated on SoL. I am not saying there was no justification for your actions against SoL, just that your points for starting on SoL now apply to SoF but nothing was done.



And Evo before us and NA before them...



Wow you did a good deed once or twice! Awesome! Letting a few land farms off the hook really weakens your political position and is a big burden on you!

I know of what I speak.

errr... so your claim is that we should have moved on to SoF even though SOL was still after us for revenge? That argument makes no sense, then we would have SOl and SoF after us and no backup, what good are we doing then? Try to take a moment and think about it and maybe you'll realize why that would be a terribly stupid plan.

Did a good deed once or twice. Once again you prove to not know of what you speak. Perhaps you should ask Pang about how frequently we do such thing that the rest of you don't bother to notice.

Maybe you'd have backup if you asked. PDM tried to start such a group once as you mentioned in your previous post but no one was interested. We certainly are interested in such causes.



The difference is you think doing a good deed is special. For everyone else it is commonplace. Penny wise and pound foolish doesn't make wise.

You're such a victim. I'll post quotes of yours and add in my own personal spin and see how you like it.

Stupid fluff like this is why disputes linger for resets and resets.

rofl@detmer you really have no clue what your talking about as usual, you say we harrased the following tags

1 NA
NA was asked politely to drop their FDP with SOL and no harm would come to them, they refused so we took them out havnt had a problem with them since

2 EVO, After the ECM war SOF stood by all agreements made with EVO untill EVO decides to break a pact with us an attempt a gangbang on us along with SOL/TIE we fsed them the following set having less numbers then they did and yes they were warpredded so was hardly a blindside

3 PDM, 3 grabs was made on PDM and PDM got their panties in a twist and decides to start diffusing our missiles a clear act of war, the following set SOF fses a PDM who has pretty much the same amount of membes and NW as us and lets not forget that PDM tried to convince RD to hit us with PDM

4 you call hanlong and TC cheaters while you dont really have any proof of any actual cheating and you do this while playing on the same side as KJ and Makinso who both have run multies in the past

5 Last set as an excuse about LaF SOL decided to refuse L:L retals and not only for LaF they tried to refuse both Rival and Omega L:L retals on their topfeeds

Comparing SOL to SOF is just amusing, we rarely deny anyone pacts we dont farm people for entire resets if they want a CF we dont refuse L:L to smaller tags on topfeeds etc etc etc etc your just pissy that we dont like landtrading and hey you know what the other 3 tags on your side doesnt like landtrading either

F L U F F

To point out the following things from my past post

1 Break a pact with us and you will die

2 Try to gangbang us and we will gangbang you back and you will die

3 Diffuse our missiles and you will die

SoF is so mean and bad etc *whipes detmers tears*

Oh and detmer you should probably say that SOF sent PDM what? 3? different pact offers before the problem between our tags begun

Yeah we were definately out to hurt you! oh noes!

thanks for clearing that up for us Ivan.

Pretty sure Hanlong/ TC were caught with their hand in the cookie jar but I could be mistake about that.

Pretty sure your just being pissy to be pissy. Not sure landtrading has anything at all to do with this convo

so like any other poster on AT?

How blind, deaf, and dumb are you? Proof has been given that TC gifted his country military through the database. The admins found logs of hanlong viewing the database tables for countries as well as evo's forums.

Go back and re-read the post for the exacts. There was more than enough proof that hanlong/TC used ill-gotten access to gain an advantage in this game through obtaining information they should not have been able to obtain.

No proof? what. This is delusional.

Is your credibility so far aligned with LaF that you can't even see the clearly stated facts of the game admins?

It's concerning to me that the SoF Vice President would deny that LaF leaders cheated and passed illegally obtained information to them (amongst others).

Surely these facts are now not in dispute by anyone (except for the usual suspects within LaF).

Fragrant lie.

Oh hold on

So LaF cheated, but Evo cheated as well therefore LaF never cheat but Evo still cheated.

I see it all clearly now.

I don't think anyone's stopping you from trying to gangbang whom ever you want.

are you just spouting off random nonsense and trying to get as much collateral damage as possible?

LOUD NOISES!

Last i checked it was proven that hanlong had access to the database but what he really did with it no one knows, Also TC is an excheat and I never trusted him worth a fluff but adding 10m troops imo sounds a bit too obvious

Anyway id love to see logs of hanlongs cheating please do post them

Oh hold on

So Evo and sol cheated, but LaF cheated as well therefore Evo and sol never cheat but LaF still cheated.

I see it all clearly now.

Detmer the fact is we DID try to garnish the support of other netters, you claim you would have supported but where was the interest at the time?

Seems like pretty logical math...but i must of missed that lesson. Can they teach me this math at LaF?

Evo admins have not abused the database tables to gain information. When doing maintenance on one table they noticed peculiarities which inadvertently gave them information they otherwise would not have likely noticed. That information was available though to the public, you would just have to look for it.

Accordingly the admins apologized for inadvertently discovering information in such a manner. There was of course no abuse.

Ok so that makes sense. I need to show you logs of Hanlong/TC admitting to cheating? What next a video of him hacking boxcar or the game?

What planet are you on. We are all across the world we are no the FBI.

The game admins have found the evidence, Hanlong nor TC have not denied it. LaF have apparently kicked both and you want me to produce MORE proof?

What are you smoking?

You never contacted us about it. To be fair I don't think we ever contacted you. Our alliances were at odds at the time.

FYI, a person that for now can be known as "tag bit", regularly used database access to acquire information and give it to his alliance.

SS > even MD has had cheats and so have SoF. Difference is they were along time ago and have been booted. We took any punishment required at the time and paid our dues.

You guys seem to like to cheat and then get off free of charge while at the same time denying you even cheated in the first place.

I LaF all those who deny Hanlong cheated.

The guy hasn't been seen since it happened, no explanations.

I love SoF abusing netters, since Helmet has returned we have fought 3 wars

Got FSed by PDM and kicked their ass
FSed PDM and kicked their ass, minor skirmish with Sol restarts
and this war

We'd of buried the hatchet with PDM after last set but you guys didnt want to play, so your gonna be tagkilled for a 3rd set. Hopefully this will be the last time as frankly you guys bore me

I didnt say that you had to show logs of them admitting to cheating I said that id like to see logs of them cheating

and lol@detmer yeah they happend to do maintenance on SoFs countries and went public with the information and then afterwards apologized for what they did and are very innocent

Hanlong had obtained access to qz's database that he apparently used to read the evo website (once as far as i am aware), other than that the admins havnt actually even suggested he did anything....

As far as anything game related, when i talked to the mods they said there was no proof of him doing anything, and nothing to suggest he ever did do anything in game. But he had the ability to do it if he wanted to which warranted a deletion.

Which is fair enough...

All the above has been done.

Your definition of "punishment required" is different than ours, and we're fighting over it.

That is untrue. When provided with an accusation of rule violations. The matter was investigated by admins, as is the prerogative of admins to do. The rule violation was found to have occurred so the admins took action. There was no regularity, no use for personal gain, and no sharing with alliance mates.

So your saying that slagpit abused his access, but didnt share it with his alliance or for his own personal gain and yet was convicted of violating the rules and got removed?

Ivan I don't see how there is any question about them cheating. The proof was stated and they have disappeared w/o denying it. what more could you possibly need. This is a little ridiculous. Its as if your in denial about this whole thing.

"As far as anything game related, when i talked to the mods they said there was no proof of him doing anything, and nothing to suggest he ever did do anything in game. But he had the ability to do it if he wanted to which warranted a deletion."

From Solidsnakes post, thats pretty much the samething i got out of the game admins last I spoke to them about it

Anyhow imo the whole TC/Hanlong deal is over and done with, im just tired of hypocrisy of some people who yells laf are all cheaters but they like to side with EVO the only difference is that EVO didnt kick their abusers out like LaF did

They also arent refusing to pact evo for 6 months or attempting to gangbang them every reset

What a load of fluff.

How long has SS been around in leadership and how many dirty cheaters have been in leadership at the same time? SS is either very trusting or just fluffing stupid.

TC cheated years ago and was removed, but as soon as LaF realised he could cheat some more for them (and think that everyone had forgotten about his cheating ways in e2025) they reinstated him. He then proceeded to cheat even worse than before.

Ivan: Who are our abusers?

Are you still whining about evo finding out that LT suicided on Evo? because we definitely needed uber admin info to find that out.

fact of the matter is that i posted proof, and it wasn't from an evo admin:)

No, Slagpit did not abuse his access. He did standard admin duties. It is a fabrication that he abused any access.

I was just trying to translate your post, my mistake if i took it the wrong way and no im talking about the incident where qzjul by accident saw FA packages between SoFers and no I got no hard feelings against qz nor did I favor the said FA packages between SoFers but fact is that he used his admin access to check for them the fact that he could have found them anyway with other tools doesnt really matter he went into the database got the information and used it

And Anoniem im not pro suiciders on any tag, even evolution if it was up to me id gladly have a list of suiciders posted up with their nicknames on AT so no im not and I never will be whining about evos admins using the db to find out that it was LT if anything Ill whine about the fact that they did it for EVO and not for others.

actually it wasn't slagpit (it wasn't even an admin - somebody else brought it to admin attention) that found out it was LT, but we'll indulge your ignorance some more.

P.S.

Can you (LaF) get TC to stop private messaging me. it's getting boring. if you're going to allow TC and hanlong to continue to have influence at least have them create new aliases. or ar

From: Turtle Crawler
To: anoniem
Subject: Your AT post
Date: Jun 21st, 20:23
Message Body:
"TC cheated years ago and was removed, but as soon as LaF realised he could cheat some more for them (and think that everyone had forgotten about his cheating ways in e2025) they reinstated him. He then proceeded to cheat even worse than before. "

Are you just making fluff up? I didn't cheat years ago either lol. Nor recently. I wasn't even accused of cheating. I was accused of having a login to the RD site.

Why does someone suiciding need to be brought to admin attention?

http://forums.earthempires.com/Forum.php?threadid=18442

So, does this thread mean anything to anybody? Do people really get that much enjoyment from screaming CHEATER CHEATER at each other ad infinitum, rather than actually doing something about it?

not going to get into this again. it's not worth my time.

cheaterz gonna cheat.
ivanz gonna defend 'em.

Great! Feel free to keep grinding that axe. We're more than happy to keep slaughtering your countries.

You mean, to keep calling in allies to bail you out.