might be the dumbest thing i have ever read. i dont know where to start in the depths of stupidity


http://i303.photobucket.com/...rford_photo/loltarded.jpg

LOL yeah read that one some time ago, its pretty darn dumb thats for sure.

Religion and science isnt a good mix, one requires actual logical thinking and reasoning whereas the other doesnt require you to do more than wake up in the morning.

nice lol

i was unaware that the population has been hoovering at 6-7billion for the last millions of years. i feel like that person was just trolling when they wrote it. but then i think of all the religious people ive met and realize they were probably being serious.

Wow. Just when I think I've figured out every way in which this is wrong I notice another...

I think i lost several IQ points simply by reading that image......

that can't be serious... how can you use scientific units and ignore the water cycle?

111

I think he forgot that when your dead you turn to ashes- your body fluids come out of you and IE go back to the Earth. Yes it was dumb. We are all dumber for reading it. Thanks mrford for dumbing us all down.

Nice... Religion and science don't mix :p Religion is based on "faith" and science is based on "fact" that just doesn't mix well...

trolled hard

Dam I think I need to go pee.

I agree. Science and religion are completely orthogonal and it is when people try to overstep the bounds of one that you see a conflict. Religious scripture covers certain topics and when people try you extrapolate those writings to other topics that you get serious disconnects. Priests used to not want the average person to read the Bible, not because they wanted them to be uneducated, but because they didn't think people could read it and understand it. As Reagan said, the Bible is the only book he could read over and over again and have it challenge him everytime.

I love a nice glass of salfluffer in the morning!

i bet you do

I remember in Kindergarten I was drinking water and a kid said I was drinking dinosaur pee, so I told the teacher on him.

Another one I've heard is "disproving" the earth's rotation with a simple experiment that kids can do in their homes.

1) Jump.

2) Did the earth rotate under your feet?

It's especially nice that they use more science to explain why the earth is fixed, saying God is using magnets to levitate the earth.

It cant rotate! The earth is flat, my priest told me so!! (And thats a level 80 priest with epic gear!!!)

heh ViLSE...

and this while indiana is trying to force religion into schools and science classes:

http://arstechnica.com/...gion-in-science-class.ars

apparently they forgot about the whole seperation of church and state thing.

i would pull my kid out of that class if they tried to pull that fluff.

Even if the earth was rotating 1000 X faster and you jumped you probably wouldn't see the earth rotate under your feet either.. something about angular momentum:P

most people don't realize that a lot of science is based on faith as well...it's not as clearcut as just one is bs and the other is fact.

how is fact based on faith?

I would like to know as well

having faith in the earth being flat?

A lot of science is based on theory. These theories are then used to prove things and through lots of convolutions and faith can be accepted as fact.

'scientist' at one point would have had you believing that the earth was flat

1. science is wrong about many things. as a statistician, i've seen way too many scientific studies that are wrong or use poor methods. we put a lot of faith in scientific studies being done well.

2. even if done well, the idea that what we see is correct and what we don't see (for example, God) is wrong is simplistic thinking. we don't see emotions, yet we know they exist.

3. the very idea of science is based on a lot of principles that we take for granted. there's a lot of literature on this. see for example, http://www.nytimes.com/...avies.html?pagewanted=all

i consider myself a strong Christian and a strong academic scientist, and i don't necessarily agree with a lot of both sides, but i fully believe that religion and science go together, and it pains me when they are often pitted as utter opposites that cannot coexist.

Not true mold, that is a common misconception. Scientists long before Columbus knew the world was round. Mathematicians/Philosophers had calculated simple estimates for the radius of the earth in the third century BC.

Science requires predictions. If those predictions are wrong, then new science is necessary. By faith one can make some predictions, when those are wrong, it was some almighty being's great plan all along (or the mistaken calculation of a fallible human).

Theory has also become almost a pejorative. In science, for something to become a theory, it must be very well tested and satisfy predictions. The general theory of relativity for instance is very well known. It breaks down in extreme situations such as that of the very small when quantum mechanics becomes important (which is not included in GR). What you are referring to as theories, mold, are really models. There are many models in science that describe what we see, but may require more data to prove or disprove various predictions. Some good examples are the Standard Model or the Concordance Model. They fit very well with what we think we know, but they don't explain everything. We expect there to be some changes based on future data, and the changes could be big or small depending on what we see. They're still not accepted as fact, but it's the closest thing we have.

Faith on the other hand is very very different. It is specifically the belief in something without fact. Religious faith would be silly though if it were based on proof. Why wouldn't you believe in a being whose existence was based on fact? Just by definition, faith does not depend on logic. Once something becomes logical, it is no longer faith based.

here's a thought. there are many things science cannot explain. many people attribute these things to a higher being. people who are atheists would make the counterargument that science just hasn't figured it out yet. does that imply that at some point in the far future, we will progress to a state where science can explain everything, leaving nothing unexplained?

that would be interesting.

highrock: I agree that religion and science do not have to be at odds with one another. If there is no science or evidence, then there is no reason to believe one thing over another. The difference however, and this seems lost on the author of that article you posted, is that when no evidence is present, science tells us that we do not know. Religion tells us what it must be. I would consider myself an agnostic. There are tough questions about existence, I wouldn't put it on the physicists to answer that. You can think what you will about why we're all here having these discussions, but there's no reason to kill and fight over our beliefs that no one can prove, and has no real affect that we can know about (perhaps an eternal judgment, but has anyone ever been that can tell us about that?).

Sure, but that's what peer review is for, and when a statistically significant number of studies begin to agree, we tend to start saying it's correct.



We don't see emotions? yes, yes we do; you can see these things in a cat or pet scan, and they are quite evident on somebody's face often; where is the evidence for God? or Thor? Can you prove why there would only be one god, and not two hundred? or a million? or a *different* god than the one you think of? Occams razor (a more-often-correct-than-not method) suggests the simplest solution is the correct one, and the simplest solution is that there simply is no god. Otherwise how do you account for non-christian religions; really, Christianity is quite new in human religion terms.



That article said nothing of the sort; it simply was trying to justify that there "must be somewhere these things came from" or something like that; does there *really* have to be a purpose? Could not the universe *JUST EXIST?* What principles precisely do we take for granted? I don't think we take anything for granted; we simply try to model the environment around us, and repeat experiments, and guess what? they tend to hold!



How can religion and science go together in any way? I wouldn't consider them opposites, I'd consider them orthogonal, in as far as science can never prove religion wrong, and religion (should be) completely absent of any scientific information; however, I would also say anybody with a scientific mind can see the general unprovability of religion, and the conundrum that is multiple incompatible religious theories; how, precisely, would you determine which religion is correct? If I had to go with the number of people who have ever worshipped one religion it might even be something like buddism, though with the number of christians these days (high 1B - low 2B) range, they're probably a good chunk; islam is over 1B; buddism is big in an area of the world that has a lot of people; if it came down to a "vote" of which religion is correct, especially considering all people over our 10k year history of religion, christianity would be a big player, but definitely not have a majority; paganism or animist religions would probably have a significant seat at the table. If one has to believe in a religion, one should probably pick the "correct" one to get into the correct "heaven" or equivalent, assuming the "correct" religion has a "heaven". For all we know, this *could* all be created by the FSM and he's just laughing at us and pointing with His noodly appendage.

religion and science go together in that if you believe in a God and that he created all things, then science can be a way to discover his creations. science can never prove religion wrong or right, but it is possible to be a scientist and religious (many top scientists are).

it all comes down to faith. there are many things that science will never explain. it's up to you whether you want to believe in a certain religion (whichever one you choose to believe in) or the religion of atheism or agnosticism. either way, to call people who are religious "idiots" shows how close-minded and stubborn people are. there are religious idiots and there are non-religious idiots. religion and idiocity are orthogonal.

religion is a man made tool to answer questions that have no answers. its painfully obvious if you look back through past civilizations belief. whether it be the polytheistic beliefs of the Greeks and their god for every thing, to the myans and their belief that you had to slaughter people to keep the sun rising.

religion is evolving as its dis-proven, as the church tried to suppress science pretty much throughout recorded history. you can not refute this. its a little weird that you can believe so fully in something that is modified every time its conveniently proven wrong.

now i realize that the same can be said for science, but thats to be expected. religion is supposedly absolute, as is "god's power" his intentions, and his plan.



but what do i know. im really apathetic about the issue. i dont really believe in a god, but if im wrong im open to that possibility. i just dont think about it.

s for my profession, id like to think of myself as a scientist....well an engineer anyways.

i think there's a clear distinction to be made between "God" and "religion" and "the church". Religion is an intensely private matter. People look to the church for answers on how to interpret what the Bible (or whatever its equivalent) says, as well as try to understand God. The people we look to, which I assume is what you mean by "the church", are simply people as well trying to interpret God's will. They are subject to mistakes, subject to evil and corruption, and are really no better than any other person. So the fact that the church can be wrong or do bad things does not (or should not) take away from faith. If we equate church leaders to God and religion, then in some ways we're saying that those people understand God fully and can know his every intention, which defeats the purpose of God because no single person will understand God completely.

(replace God with whatever deity you are comfortable with)

I have always been taught that the Bible is the infallible word of God. Written by men who were inspired by God to write down what insight he has given them.

I have also been told that the Bible has never been proven wrong by science quite the opposite were its possible it's been proven right through archaeology and other sciences.

I am a christian with an open mind because the Bible tells us to test all things for truth. Can someone give an example of anywhere something the the Bible says has been proven wrong? This is not sarcasm I truly want to know.

TY: I would suggest that you set aside a week of your life and actually sit down and read the bible. Read the whole thing, page by page and then consider each bit in light of your science education and your common sense.
Personally I prefer to put the question the other way around, I would love you to prove to me that the Bible is always right. If someone claims to me that it is so then I would ask them for proof as they are the ones making really outrageous claims then the burden of proof is on them not the other way around. But anywho to get things going this is a good start:



Creationism is based on the Bible that says that God created the world in 6 days about 10,000 years ago. Clearly the world was not created in 6 days about 10,000 years ago, so therefore the Bible is just plain wrong. If the world were merely 10,000 years old then how do you explain the dinosaurs that are millions of years old? We've discovered life fossils that date back billions of years. Even the skeletons of modern humans date back before the time of Adam and Eve.

If we were to believe the Bible, then we would have to believe the Earth was created before the stars, which is the wrong order. If the stars were created 10,000 years ago, we wouldn't be able to see stars that are more than 10,000 light years away. That's because if a star was further away than 10,000 light years, the light from that star wouldn't have got here yet. Our galaxy alone is about 100,000 light years across. If the Bible were true, we wouldn't be able to see but 1/10th the way across our own galaxy. We surely wouldn't be able to see other galaxies or galactic clusters or know that the universe is expanding.

Our modern technology has proved the Bible wrong. That means that if there is a God, he didn't write the Bible and the Bible is not his word. If the Bible were the word of God and the Bible is wrong, then God is wrong. And if God can't be wrong, then the Bible, which is wrong, can't be the word of God.

Men who lived thousands of years ago wrote the Bible. The authors had limited knowledge of the nature of the universe and wrote the Bible based on what they believed at the time. They didn't know the Earth was round and that it orbited the Sun, which is a star among billions of stars in the galaxy, which is but one galaxy in billions of galaxies that have existed for billions of years. To them, the world was flat. There was up and there was down and God lived in the sky. They didn't know the world was round and there was no such thing as "up". They didn't know that the sky was a thin layer of gas that surrounds the surface of this planet. We have been to the sky and we have been above the sky and God isn't living there.


But seriously, read the thing, all of it...

I have read it.

To start with Ill put out that there is a lot of metaphor in the bible. There are many Christians who don't believe in the literal 6 day creation, that accept that the universe is much much older than 10k years. The bible no where gives it an age.

The bible doesn't say the earth was created before light. It actually says: gen 1.2 the earth was at first a shapeless mass with the spirit of god brooding over the dark vapors. Kinda sounds like what science tells us and didn't know until what 100 years ago. Gen 1.3 Then god said let there be light. It was not until gen 1.6 that the earth was actually formed into a planet. So that does align with science. It also states Isaiah 40:22 that God sits above the circle of the earth. They did know it was round. Just because some idiots 500 some odd years ago chose to either misinterpret or overlook that can't be blamed on God.

To say that the fossils we have found of humans only date back to 100k years ago, so that must mean the human race is only that old, claims we have found all the possible human fossils we will ever find. Somehow I don't think that is true.

There are also descriptions of dinosaurs in the book of Job 40-41. The oldest book of the Bible. The Behemoth and the Leviathan as described could only be dinosaurs.

I also don't remember reading anywhere that the Bible says the earth rotated around the sun. Which book is that in?

Darwin himself said when he was alive that right now the fossil record is small and we can not prove evolution but in the future there will be many fossil's and the theory would be proven. (i paraphrased not an exact quote). We now have millions of fossils and as far as I now we have yet to find the missing link. There are many fragments of bones people have extrapolated on to try and prove it. But science does still call it a theory doesn't it?

I would put out that believing there is no God take as much faith as believing there is a God.

Atheism I can't respect it say's there is no God. That in and of itself is contradiction. In order to state something, you can't prove, as complete truth you have to be claiming you know all things. So the atheist is claiming omniscient in doing so claiming Godhood.

An Agnostic I can relate to and respect. He states that "I don't know if there is or isn't a God but I choose to think and live life as if there isn't a God.


/me awaits the flaming

God created Muslims for Christians to hate!


+discuss

I hate no one, not even Atheist's

TY you are very clearly wrong with what Atheism is and stands for. I suggest you go read up on that one as well. :)

As for your interpretations of the bible to "make it fit" with modern reasoning and science well that just dont cut it for me. If you do that then you can just as well read Harry Potter and by the same logic "prove" that he also existed.

Lovely book this, its move violent that an Tarrantino movie...
:-)

----

It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said “Thou shall not kill”. For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered.


The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).

Is all that true as well or do you prefer just picking the "nice parts" of the bible?

Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5



Ignorance is bliss. Christians should not practice free inquiry nor socialize with non Christians:

Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10

Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17

Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8



Judge other religions for not following Christ:

Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22

Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19

The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7

Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12

False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9



Here are my two personal favorites:

Everyone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10

A Christian can not be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33

You have every right to believe that, I will not disrespect you for doing so. Creation though was written long before the science of evolution or the big bang yet it does fit. I have not made up the sequence of events the bible states. It says what it says. You asked me and told me to read the Bible. I ask you have you read it?

Biblical contradictions and inaccuracies (please excuse the formatting):

Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
peace, but a sword.
- Matthew 10:34

... all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
- Matthew 26:52



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For wrath killeth the foolish man...
- Job 5:2

... let not the sun go down on your wrath.
- Ephesians 4:26



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And no man hath ascended up to heaven, even the Son of man which
is in heaven.
- John 3:13

... and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
- 2 Kings 2:11



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If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
- John 5:31

I am one that bear witness of myself...
- John 8:18
[Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]



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A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children...
- Proverbs 13:22

Sell that ye have and give alms...
- Luke 12:33



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Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord... Wealth and riches
shall be in his house...
- Psalms 112:1-3

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than
for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
- Matthew 19:24



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I and my father are one.
- John 10:30

... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
- John 14:28
[Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]



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Thou shalt not kill
- Exodus 20:13

Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his
side... and slay every man his brother...
- Exodus 32:27



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy.
- Exodus 20:8

The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot
away with: it is iniquity.
- Isaiah 3:22



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Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness
of anything that is in heaven... earth... [or] water.
- Leviticus 26:11

And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt
thou make them.
- Exodus 25:18



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For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works.
- Ephesians 2:8-9

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
faith only.
- James 2:24



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God is not a man, that he should lie: neither the son of man,
that he should repent.
- Numbers 23:19

And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his
people.
- Exodus 32:14



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... the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall
hear his voice, and come forth...
- John 5:28-29

As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth
down to the grave shall come up no more.
- Job 7:9



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... thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth,
hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for
wound, stripe for stripe.
- Exodus 21:23-25

... resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right
cheek, turn to him the other also.
- Matthew 5:39



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Honor thy father and mother.
- Exodus 20:12

If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, and
wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own
life also, he cannot be my disciple.
- Luke 14:26



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Lay not up for yourself treasures upon the earth...
- Matthew 6:19

In the house of the righteous is much treasure...
- Proverbs 15:6



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
- Genesis 32:30

No man hath seen God at any time.
- John 1:18



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The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
- Ezekiel 18:20

... I the lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of
the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth
generation.
- Exodus 20:5



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Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth
understanding.
- Proverbs 3:13

For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth
knowledge increaseth sorrow.
- Ecclesiastes 1:18



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The Lord is good to all.
- Psalm 145:6

I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.
- Isaiah 45:7



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.
- Matthew 5:22

[Jesus said] Ye fools and blind.
- Matthew 23:17



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


For all have sinned.
- Romans 3:23

There was a man... whose name was Job; and that man was perfect
and upright.
- Job 1:1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
- 2 Kings 8:26

Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
- 2 Chronicles 22:2



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If a man vow a vow unto the Lord or swear an oath... he shall do
according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.
- Numbers 30:2

But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven... nor by
earth.
- Matthew 5:34-35



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


... the earth abideth forever.
- Ecclesiastes 1:4

... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and
the works that are therein shall be burned up.
- 2 Peter 3:10



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


... for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger
forever.
- Jeremiah 3:12

Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever.
- Jeremiah 17:4



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


... God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.
- James 1:13

And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt
Abraham.
- Genesis 22:1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And God saw everything that he made, and behold it was very good.
- Genesis 1:31

And it repented the Lord that he had made man on earth, and it
grieved him at his heart
- Genesis 6:6



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


For now have I chosen and sanctified this house that my name be
there forever; and mine eyes and my heart shall be there
perpetually.
- II Chronicles 7:16

Howbeit the most high dwelleth not in temples made with hands.
- Acts 7:48



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[God dwells] in the light which no man can approach unto.
- I Timothy 6:16

The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.

- I Kings 8:12



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And the Lord called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid.
- Genesis 3:9,10

Ye hath neither heard his voice, at any time, nor seen his shape.
- John 5:37



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the
elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel... They saw
God, and did eat and drink.
- Exodus 24: 9-11

Whom no man hath seen nor can see.
- I Timothy 6:16



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With God all things are possible.
- Matthew 29:26

And the Lord was with Judah, and he drove out the inhabitants of
the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the
valley, because they had chariots of iron.
- Judges 1:19



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God is not the author of confusion.
- I Corinthians 24:33

Out of the mouth of the most high proceedeth not evil and good?
- Lamentations 3:38



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Those that seek me early shall find me.
- Proverbs 8:17

Then shall they call upon me but I will not answer; they shall
seek me early, but shall not find me.
- Proverbs 1:28



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of
atonement; it shall be a holy convocation unto you; and ye shall
afflict your souls and offer an offering made by fire unto the
Lord.
- Leviticus 23:27

For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day
that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt
offering or sacrifices.
- Jeremiah 7:22



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And the priest shall burn all on the altar to be a burnt
sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savor unto the
Lord.
- Leviticus 1:9

Your burnt offering are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet
unto me.
- Jeremiah 7:20



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


God is not a man, that he should lie
- Numbers 23:19

And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the
Lord have deceived that prophet.
- Ezekiel 24:9



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There is none other God but one.
- I Corinthians 8:4

And God said, Let us make man in our image.
- Genesis 1:26



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


When ye go, ye shall not go empty; but every woman shall borrow
of her neighbor, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels
of silver and jewels of gold, and raiment; and ye shall put them
on your sons and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the
Egyptians.
- Exodus 3:21,22

Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, nether rob him.
- Leviticus 19:13



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


At the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of
man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed.
- Genesis 4:5,6

And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should
kill him.
- Genesis 4:15



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not,
neither do they spin... if God so clothe the grass of the
field... shall he not much more clothe you? Therefore, take no
thought, saying what shall we eat? or what shall we drink? or
wherewithal shall we be clothed?... Take, therefore, no thought
for the morrow.
- Matthew 6:28, 30-34

But if any provideth not for his own, especially for those of his
own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an
infidel.
- I Timothy 5:8



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Be ye angry and sin not.
- Ephesians 4:26

Be not hasty in they spirit to be angry; for anger resideth in
the bosom of fools.
- Ecclesiastes 7:9



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good
works.
- Matthew 5:16

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of
them.
- Matthew 6:1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And Solomon stood before the alter of the Lord, in the presence
of all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands
toward heaven...
- I Kings 7:22

When thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are; for
they love to pray standing in the synagogues, and in the corners
of the streets, that they may be seen of men...
- Matthew 6:5



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And no razor shall come on his head; for the child shall be a
Nazarite unto God from the womb.
- Judges 8:5

Doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man hath long
hair, it is a shame unto him?
- I Corinthians 6:14



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Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
- Exodus 20:8

One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every
day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
- Romans 14:5



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For in the six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and
all that in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the
Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
- Exodus 20:11

And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and
that the Lord thy God brought the out thence through a mighty
hand and by a stretched-out arm; therefore the Lord thy God
commanded the to keep the Sabbath day.
- Deuteronomy 5:15



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There is nothing unclean of itself.
- Romans 14:14

Nevertheless, these shall ye not eat, of them that chew the cud or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel and the hare, and the coney; for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof, therefore they are unclean unto you. And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass.
- Deuteronomy 14:7,8



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Cursed is he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother.
- Deuteronomy 27:22

And Abraham said... She is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
- Genesis 20:11,12



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If brethren dwell together, and one of them die and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger; her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife.
- Deuteronomy 25:5

If a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing... they shall be childless.
- Leviticus 20:21



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He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness.
- Mark 3:29

And by him that believe are justified from all things.
- Acts 13:39



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[John the Baptist] is Elias which was for to come.
- Matthew 11:14

And they asked him, what then? Art thou [John the Baptist] Elias? And he saith, I am not.
- John 1:21



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Now, after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God.
- Mark 1:14

After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judea... and John was also baptizing Enon... for John was not yet cast into prison.
- John 3:22-24



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And it was in the third hour, and they crucified him.
- Mark 25:3-4

And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, behold your king... Shall I crucify your king?
- John 19:14-15



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They gave him vinegar to drink, mingled with gall.
- Matthew 27:34

And they gave him to drink, wine mingled with myrrh.
- Mark 15:23
[Jesus was the thirsty chap in both verses.]



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And the men which journeyed with [Paul] stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
- Acts 9:7

And they that were with me [Paul] saw indeed the light and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
- Acts 22:9



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Abraham had two sons; one by a bonds-maid, the other by a free woman.
- Galatians 4:22

By faith, Abraham when he was tried offered up Isaac... his only begotten son.
- Hebrews 11:17



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Therefore Michal, the daughter of Saul, had no child unto the day of her death.
- II Samuel 6:23

The five sons of Michal, the daughter of Saul.
- II Samuel 21:8



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And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel.
- II Samuel 24:1

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
- I Chronicles 21:1



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All power is given unto [Jesus] in heaven and in earth.
- Matthew 28:18

And [Jesus] could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands on a few sick folk and healed them.
- Mark 6:5



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There shall no evil happen to the just.
- Proverbs 12:21

Whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
- Hebrews 12:6

It's all true yes. Its his creation he can do what he see's fit with it. I am not trying to convince you its true or right. But I deserve the right and respect to believe in it as well as you deserve the right and respect not to believe without being insulted and called an idiot.

I agree there are many who have bastardized it to say what they want it to say. That can not be blamed on God.

And yes, I most definitely have read it and I find it an absolutely disgusting book. You can certainly cherry pick a few nice bits in it but most of that my mom taught me when I was growing up as common sense and it had absolutely zero need for any religion of any kind whatsoever.

Well I can respect deference to science, and treating the bible as a metaphor at least, that removes the creationist complication. The Catholic church, for example, supports this point.



We have hominid skeletons that are arguably human or at least close human precursors dating back over 1M years. I'm sure we *will* find ones that are older than that, but when you're in the speciation of humans region it becomes blurry what is a human and what is another branch. Or an ancestor.


If you're suggesting humans and dinosaurs co-existed, then THAT is something you have COMPLETELY wrong; dinosaurs died out 64M years before what you could call humans began to evolve; mammals were mostly about the size of a mouse at the time, and it took some 20M years for them to evolve into significantly more sizeable creatures.


What? Yes we can/have...? well all science can be revised, but 100% of our data supports it.


What missing link? We have lots of transition fossils for all many species, including humans.



What are you talking about?




A theory does not mean something that has *NOT* been proven -- it means something that has not been DISPROVEN so far! It is a pretty high form of support in science.

Gravity is a theory! But you don't say OOOH WELL GRAVITY IS STILL A THEORY I GUESS IT DOESN'T EXIST! do you now? Because you're stuck to the earth still.


No, no it doesn't; because believing in a god picks a very certain one; if I look at a long list of gods, which is the correct one(s)? How can I know which is correct? why christianity over islam? Why either of those over buddism? or the roman gods? or thor and the norse gods? This is a serious question, why is one right and not the other? Religions pick and choose things and make up stories to explain things; many athiests basically just recognise this problem and say that the simplest solution is that there probably is *no* correct one. Others simply were never brought up with the idea, so it doesn't make any sense.



Dude, that didn't make a ton of sense; also, if I follow your line of reasoning, many of your above statements also fall under that, and you are thus being somewhat hypocritical.

However, the thing about your "atheism is a faith" point of view is that... well the quote I like is: "Atheism is a religion in the same sense that not collecting stamps is a hobby"; you guys don't understand that believing in religion is *adding* to the complexity, and that a simpler solution is that it simply doesn't exist.




The problem with agnostics is typically they're saying that because they don't want to intellectually challenge themselves. to *really* consider the problem.


Again, I'll ask you the question I asked above (and in my previous rant):






If you don't mind challenging your faith, and seriously considering it, you should read The God Delusion, by Richard Dawkins; if you read that, and you come through with your faith as strong as ever, then it will probably have been good for your faith even. Religious people should not be afraid to challenge their faiths, as that is what faith is about right? If you just believe something without considering all aspects of it, what do you really believe?



Personally I don't believe anything (Again, the "atheism is a religion in the same way not collecting stamps is a hobby") and my life is simpler because of it. It also is much more logical.

Dont get me wrong TY, I am perfectly happy with you believing in this as much as you want and I respect your right to do so. :)
Apologies if it seems I dont. I just like arguing the facts when it comes to religion and the bible as I find it so astounding that people believe in it. :)

Your right to think and believe whatever you want is very important, and likewise of course my freedon of speech to say I think its all a load of rubbish. :)

Also ViLSE & TY: stop focusing on the bible; the bible is not all religion. There are many religions; why would you cherry-pick one religion, christianity?

You need context to what was being said at the time. I have not just gone to a website and copied pasted. Until its read in context you cant make a judgement