101?

I'm a longtime lag member and past leader in laf, at no point was or is there anything in our site or in irc anything being said or posted about trying to drive Evo from the game. Yes the Laf membership stands up for a war with Evo and likes laying the beat down on them and no it's not because they've been beating us in the netting stakes as the spin suggests. Laf members immensely dislike the anti Laf trash that is always posted here in public by a very small number of Evo leaders, from a veteran members point of view if that ends so does the rest of the hostility, I only come here every now and then as do most other people but there is always the same bs in a new thread.

I was the hIA in Laf for a long time and greatly admired the uniformity that Evolution shows when it nets, they have mastered the art of getting everyone in tag to follow proven strats to great effect and become the leader in the ANW race. Laf is less uniform ( mind u I did try in vain to make it more uniform) however we have more experimental type players who try out new things on the alliance server rather than in test servers. Evo will continue to win ANW until such time as the rest of the laggers in Laf choose to follow the proven strats and play as a netting team rather than individuals. War between Laf and Evo has never been about netting prowess ( and if anyone thinks so they are deluded) we know where our deficiencies are and haven't taken the hard line to fix it. Btw I'm not against joining Evo for a few sets either as I don't think we are that different

En4cer85 starts his post by asking for calm on AT and precedes to spend two paragraphs trolling Evolution. Wonderful. Where exactly are these "test servers"? What are you even talking about? You think that "proven strats" appear out of nowhere? I'd like to know about these amazing experimental strats you guys play. Is it stuff like fascist cashers? Of course that's going to suck.

Why don't you talk about all of the dirty ingame actions that LaF committed against evolution while the two alliances were "allied"? EVO leaders complained on AT about it because there was no better alternative. LaF leaders completely refused to take responsibility and it's not like EVO could FS them just because they were offended. EVO leaders felt that the pact they signed prevented that. Only LaF thinks it's okay to just break pacts because they feel offended. I mean really, if that stuff is always posted on AT then why does LaF continue to pact Evolution at the start of every set and never bring that issue up in pact negotiations? It's because you're gutless cowards scared fluffless at the thought of a war where the outcome isn't decided before your FS.

Why don't you talk about all of the anti evo trash that is always posted here in public by laf leaders?

It always just comes down to your own insufferable egotism. "LaF members are the best, we just lose because we play for fun!". No, you lose because you aren't the best. That's been proven over and over again in both war and netting. You're the best at playing dirty, I'll give you that.

Man, this thread is so full of hate.

Increase the love, or I'll kill all of you~

-_-

I don't remember a single time LaF started a thread here in AT calling Evo anything, I could be wrong as I don't spend my time lurking every thread in AT, but most of the time is annonniem calling out laf in public for things done in game (with is fine), and you coming shortly thereafter to flame/insult everyone even the neutrals that don't want to side with neither of you (with isn't fine... but whatever floats your boat).

anyways I can see where this thread is going so I am leaving this thread before I get personally attacked for not siding with anyone.

I thought you quit Evo, Slag...?

Aside from my fluff comment two posts back, I'd really just like to say that, truly, the better alliance is the one that wholly drops stupid fluff like this first.

Not just the whole "but we dont say XYZ..." I mean, dropping even that. Just don't give recognition to the crap people say, and they'll get bored of it. It may not solve everything, but it's a great way to start.

I might actually read this forum more often, too.

bonus

How the hell was what en4cer said trolling? Slag, you are smoking crack dude, he freaking offered to play a set in EVO as a good will gesture and you spit in his face like that? I genuinely don't get how you guys (all three of you, lol) can be that delusional.

Oh look, another PDM member picking a fight with me and preemptively crying about the fact that I'm likely to call him out on his bullfluff. There are two ways of avoiding this:

1) Don't post bullfluff on AT
2) Don't pick fights with me

Pretty much everything you said is factually wrong but don't worry about it bro, that's not your problem. It's hard for facts to get into the bubble. I'll leave it at that because you're so sensitive.

Its sad whats happened to you slagpit. Its not just PDM members that are aware of your descent into delusion, its starting to freak everybody out.

Do you even know what the word "delusion" means?

this merits further something, bleh, bonus

Slag where are u getting trolling from my post... i Just stated that i admire the way Evo members can fall into line and will all pull their weight netting (and lafs members won't) i'm sorry if u've found something anti Evo there.

Also I haven't been leading in laf for about 2 years now but have remained an active member and can see how the other members of LaF feel and react to the Evo, Laf BS that has been going on here on AT for ages.


In leadership i was always pushing for an Isolationist standpoint where LaF just netted, I was against Laf warring Evo in the first place under SS when it all begun. At that point in time i had regrown laf from about 40 members to nearly 90 and wanted to consolidate and retrain players.

When i mention proven strats i mean that you guys utilize the all x farmer casher and techer strats really well (and yes people in the game do have access to testing servers where they don't have to wait for turns to test strats) whether they are directly linked to the game or someone else has made them i haven't taken the time to ask.

Still i hold no malice towards Evolution and would play there to better understand how things are done.

The problem is that you people constantly reference LaF farming PDM as one of the reasons why LaF sucks so much, yet the ones that got Farmed don't whine like little kids in AT.

PDM sat down with LaF, and reached an agreement, we are over it, we have no love for LaF, but we don't go on a rampage of hate either, Slaqpit our members are hostile to you, because you are hostile to everyone; don't believe me? go and ask the leaders of every alliance if they think you are a hostile trollzor and you will see how bad your public image is.

Delusion? when somebody writes:

"I was the hIA in Laf for a long time and greatly admired the uniformity that Evolution shows when it nets, they have mastered the art of getting everyone in tag to follow proven strats to great effect and become the leader in the ANW race. Laf is less uniform ( mind u I did try in vain to make it more uniform) however we have more experimental type players who try out new things on the alliance server rather than in test servers. Evo will continue to win ANW until such time as the rest of the laggers in Laf choose to follow the proven strats and play as a netting team rather than individuals."

And you reply:

It always just comes down to your own insufferable egotism. "LaF members are the best, we just lose because we play for fun!". No, you lose because you aren't the best. That's been proven over and over again in both war and netting. You're the best at playing dirty, I'll give you that.

Delusion

**

You are so caught up in whatever complex has got you tied in a knot that you cannot see what the other 800+ players on the server see. Laf does not give a fluff about you guys, Laf gives a fluff about Laf. The problem is that EVO leadership also cares more about Laf than about EVO. They are done with you guys, get over it and quit tilting windmills - they only exist in your mind.

en4 is pretty spot on...

"The problem is that EVO leadership also cares more about Laf than about EVO"

Who are you referring to?

anon and slag mostly, but KJ too

That comment is so wrong. You have no idea what myself, anon and Slag do and have done for Evo.

Slag contributed heavily towards the Evo site, ran several Evo wars, was a VP, IA, HIS... and so on.

Anoniem has at times been our sole FA for a number of years now and still continues with that position.

And I'm sure I've done something too, well I guess I am still the HoW, but they dont want to give me anymore wars :(

en4 has one problem: the test servers thing; evo only has 2 people with access to the test servers, compared to 6 from LaF; also, they're not particularly useful at testing strategies, as the test servers don't have a functional market, so it's basically impossible to test anything other than T1-100 startups; also, that's not their function, and we don't give out testing access for that purpose.

Also, Evo has never tested strats on the test servers; all of our development has been incremental *IN THE ALLIANCE SERVER*, as is well documented in our strategy boards; (there's the occasional express testing... but express is fairly different too).


Anyway, please cut out the hostility & personal attacks....

Actually we.....well alright, I rather like the idea of doing a last minute CM rush on Panker's country for fun.

Dai Pang dai!

yeah access to the test server is only really useful for startups (maybe) and to see if the game mechanics do what they are supposed to do. Other than that you can make multiple countries and kill them which while it can be fun, is also not that useful in the grand scheme of things.
(as an aside the test server was useful for me to test and play with some of the mod tools) :P

It's pretty fluffing pathetic that the rank and file pdm members are so desperate to kiss LaF's ass that they're throw their critical thinking skills out the window. Although to be fair I'm being generous in assuming that they had any in the first place. When reading someone's post on AT, maybe it's a good idea to consider whether or not that person has any firsthand knowledge of what they're talking about. If they don't, why should you believe them?

I don't like to quote pieces of archaic's posts because I imagine it feels like how someone would if they were digging through animal fluff to find the source of a disease, but consider this part of it: "They [LaF] are done with you guys [EVO]". Now how could you possibly know that? Did someone in LaF tell you that? You do realize that laf signed ironclad pacts with evo two sets in a row and still couldn't stop themselves from FSing EVO twice. So there really isn't any possible guarantee of nonaggression that they could make that any logical person would believe. That would make you the delusional one, honey.

To be fair again, you've always been a completely awful netter so you probably can't manage to pick up on subtle contexts, like when netters want to insult other alliances while still appearing to be nice to the drolling masses. It's a political skill, something that LaF people have over a decade of practice with. To be less fair, you both have a slow mind and you're incredibly stubborn in your factually wrong beliefs, so there really isn't any helping you.

It's hard not to think of certain PDM members as dumb animals who can only respond to the tone of posts instead of their content. En4cer85's has a polite tone, so there certainly can't be any insult hidden in there! My posts don't have a polite tone, so you pick fights with me while simultanously whining about the resulting thrashing you receive. You realize that you've made four posts in this thread and I've only typed a single sentence response to you until now? Really why don't you put your fluff back in your pants and back the hell off me? I already said if you don't want a fight with me then you shouldn't pick one.

En4cer85 is claiming that Evolution owes much of its success to illicit strat testing on special servers that other alliances don't have access to. Let's put our thinking caps on and ask that magic question is: if his allegations of corruption were true, how would he possibly know? Where is his proof? As someone who actually has direct firsthand knowledge of the issue in question, I can tell you that he's wrong and he's a fluffing troll for going so far out of his way to make this stuff up.

The test servers do exist and one evolution person had access to them. That person was not evolution's head of strategy. I know that he didn't test strategies in that way because I can see what goes on in the test servers and I had an oversight role in evolution's strategy development. It didn't happen. But I will tell you that SIX LAF MEMBERS have access to these servers. Maybe En4cer85's accusations are the result of a guilty mind. I have no idea what they use those servers for, although now I can guess.

If anyone is actually interested in the facts, EVO has innovated far more than Laf has. The evidence is right in your face: look at all of the CI finishes and high all-X finishes. LaF has none of that. They still play the same strategies from 2005. If you want to talk about AT trolling, why pretend that people like Solidsnake, forgotten, lord tarvana, hanlong, and locket don't say anti-evo things? Give me a fluffing break.

This is the "have I passed pangs 48 hour ban for insulting him" test.

Yes!

sometimes innovation isnt actually networth positive

for example people that want to mbr the whole set

even if it did work, the more people who did it the less it would work, so there would be no way to say "ok 1/3 of the alliance go mbr this reset"

Again slag I am not trolling, I have known of test servers people have developed inside and outside the earth empires world for years and I have absolutely no qualms or problems if people use them to help develop startups and strategies I truly believe its good for the game. Technology develops and so should the game. I don't believe anyone that has the intellect or tools should not be allowed to use them.

Futhermore their is nothing double sided to any of my comments at all and I'm sorry if somehow your getting that message. Again I say I tried to build laf internally to model the same discipline that Evo shows when netting. ( I'm giving you guys props for Christ sake) again I don't buy into the whole anti laf / Evo Bs... It's horrible for the game. I don't like trashing people nor being trashed. I have half a brain... Or I like to think I do, however even from the sidelines I can see there are Some leaders present and past from both sides that just can't help themselves and let bygons be bygons.

U guys hate the warring I would much prefer to be netting as its what I enjoy doing the most in this game let's get back to what we enjoy

You need a chill pill.

As for your last paragraph; wrong just plain wrong. No one still in this game has come close to matching LaF's innovations much less you or evo.

Also a just FYI Slagpit there is nothing deficient with the all x strats in laf it's the people playing them lol (one of the frustrations I mentioned) I've played them and they all manage 120-145 m nw quiet easily without any market play or manipulation. The Laf core like I said just won't play the strats disciplined enough to finish them off well, they go off on their own tangents trying out different things.

Laf at this point in time has about 40 active members with t10 finishes in the alliance server. Again I would still play in Evo to see how the other side does things but at this point in time LaF appears it still needs its vets. I don't dislike anyone in this game and would be frustrated to think that I am disliked because of the tag I play in.

All set MBR is an old strategy. I'm talking about the last two years. What has LaF done? You can say I'm wrong but it means nothing if you have no supporting evidence. It's very possible that I'm wrong. Prove it.

You're going to float this argument out there that trash talking on AT is so horrible for the game but breaking pacts to FS people for fluff reasons is not? Let me make it clear to you: the stuff that EVO leaders complained about on AT is worse than the AT posts they made. You can always simply not read AT to escape all of that. Would you honestly rather have your "allies" run suiciders on you? Would you rather have your "allies" FS you and kill off your countries? It's a lot harder to escape the laf leaders who suicide on EVO and who break pacts to FS them.

Laf has 13 total all-X finishes above 120 M. The highest is 137 M NW. That's pretty awful for an alliance that claims to be better than everyone else of your size, especially that you laughably claim to have the strats already written and available.

Like i said i wasn't for warring but will tow the company line... if those who get to make the decisions say we are warring then i'm warring. I want nothing more than to net. Right from the first time laf hit Evo i while i was in upper leadership i was trying to stop it, as i didn't and still don't have any problems with Evo.

Its not like Laf hasn't been suicided before either Slagpit, and by numerous different players too, you can't honestly tell me that someone inside Evolution has never done it or helped sponsor it. People from alliances decide they have problems and want to do something about it and they do. I think ur referring to LT (yet again) He didn't get any help from laf at all to do what he did that set and did it on his own accord.

Being a member i'm fed the exact opposite story that you guys are telling your members, we have been assured that the actions laf took were legit and within the confines of whatever pacts there were, whereas its your belief that it wasn't legit. (btw i hate pacting i wish there was an ingame function for it so that pact breaking and fluffty little clauses can't be put into them for breaking)

As for the netting stuff Laf has had 1 netting set in the last 12 months but i'm not here to argue, i know the strats and know where they will finish without deviating from the status quo. My last netting set was an all x demo farmer that without my greed taken into it would have finish 130-135m, i got greedy and lost 9 bil on a market play :P

and finished 105m nw instead :P

Remember i also did say that the multitudes in laf will only play the strats to the letter for so long b4 they decide to do something else to try and finish them higher (and i attribute that to the fact that Evo have been setting the bar nice and high and the guys in laf want to go past it)

Is there a point? Is the sky really blue? Prove it. You made a statement that is clearly wrong, I responded as such. I have no interest in getting into a long winded pissing contest.

Its great that your passionate about the game and all, but you need to learn how to channel it properly and when to walk away.

In the past decade LaF has dealt with things much worse than what you have described there. Laf got over it all. We have welcomed former enemies who once sought to destroy laf in with open arms. many people can attest to this. Get over this. It is getting old fast.

LaF doesn't finish well with all-explorer countries because of internal culture.

Many members have real life obligations and do not wish to run a "real country" that grabs for land and quit the game. We encourage them to play all-explorers instead that takes only 5 minutes a day. That is, if someone plays an all-explorer in LaF, it is because they have no intention to finish well to begin with, but their presence still helps, particularly during wars. They goof around and try to resell oil or do really weird stuff once in a while and it backfires.

This is why we don't do as well as Evo in the ANW department.

This game is still basically the same game as years ago. The removal of 2b limit, and the addition of standing orders/bonus points definitely helped to shake up things a bit and lead to different stocking/destocking strategies. However, its been a while since the last "game changing change" and things are starting to feel stagnant again.

Innovation or the lack of it is one thing, but changes will help to push innovation too. Have the game developers just considered changing stuff once in a while just to introduce change? Introduce a 4b limit next reset. Remove it the reset after that, and then change DR to 48 hours the next set. Remove that, then change tanks to be worth 3 jets worth in unit power instead of 2 the reset after that. Things like that would help to keep the game interesting because every reset feels different.


This post is directed to nobody in particular.

En4cer85:

Actually I can, it's actually quite simple. Are you ready? Here goes:

I'm not aware of anyone in Evolution doing it or helping to sponsor it, at least up until LaF broke a pact to FS EVO. Some suiciding did happen after that. But can you even imagine someone like Yank going untagged and suiciding on LaF? It's a completely ridiculous thought. You don't have to imagine someone like SS doing it because he already has done it.

Maybe you should question ridiculous things like signing a pact with an alliance that you're planning on FSing during the first two weeks of the set. Well, only if you actually care about the truth of the matter. That's a bad assumption on my part.


torment:

Thanks for posting your worthless opinion, I'll file it straight to the garbage bin. Hopefully some of the other laf leaders posting essays in this thread can quickly touch on any of the netting innovations LaF has produced in the past two years.

*scans posts*

Nope!

But if you'd like to talk about "getting over things", SS has been frothing at the mouth with hatred for EVO for how long now? At least three years? And no one in LaF can explain why? Lol you sure showed me champ.

Next time save us the time and just say you're too whipped to think for yourself.


Xinhuan:

So they don't have time to play a good all-X country, even though playing a good all-X country doesn't require time, but then they spend extra time to goof around and do complicated market reselling? Sure, that makes sense.

Slagpit:

Yes, it does. They simply don't care, so even their "complicated market reselling" is just 1 minute of impulse buying, and hoping it works.

Laf has people who never liked evo. Whoopdey dooo.
Evo has people who never liked laf. big deal.

All exploring and market playing are not innovations :P

locket: in evo, we now use jet planes to explore land while you guys still use boats. and you guys still use abacus while we use calculators. we are that good. :D

:O

well land exploration by boat is better for farmers. existing water supply promotes bushel growth rates!

We must have stolen a couple of calculators :P You did call us the calculator mafia... next up are your jets! ;) I do like me an abacus though... :P

when u say laf broke a pact are u referring to this spat of wars or the original war that SS orchestrated ? coz if ur going back that far theres a long list of suicides on laf since then.... and what did or do u expect laf to do about LT suiciding on evolution ? He didn't play in Laf or any other tag that set, he was just untagged and picked out Evo to suicide on.

Laf has been suicided on hundreds of times over the years and we haven't chastised alliances publicly and for any length of time because someone that usually plays in their tag played untagged all set and suicided us.

U can't tell me ur upset when u see people suiciding Laf when they net, u probably just sit back and laugh.


What i can't understand though is our alliances are meant to be working through all the BS yet you have to keep harping on about it? I seriously can't wait to get back to netting against you guys, wars suck!

.

you really don't get it do you :(

aw fluff it

good luck EVO, you're going to need it if you keep letting the bittermint twins be your mouthpieces

heh.
no PDM vs. Evo please. I don't want that nice pact voided.

lol archaic - slagpit put himself down to "no access" on the evo site last month, so i'm not sure how he can be evo's mouth piece.

i posted a thread of evo fa and ia contacts here on AT last week, if there's a problem with what one of the official mouthpieces say then fine.

everybody is entitled to his or her own opinion. isn't that the purpose of these forums?

with threads about evo there are always more anti-evo people posting in them than evo members, so i don't get your point. if people want to have a dig at evo then fine, but then they should expect a fitting response.

i don't know why this thread is still going, but by all means everyone keep it going :S

...

what's the point of flaming more? *sigh*

and by dig at evo he means anything other than pro evo