That is understandable, but how will this deter it any better? If you delete only those responsible and put an alliance on "probation" of sorts, then the members involved will do their utmost to clean it up and remove anyone responsible. Now, you just have members who are wondering if it's worth playing if the time we've put into our countries so far this set is worth nothing.

At this point, I don't even know if I want to keep playing. I was enjoying the last few sets, and we were getting into what seemed to be a potentially fun war, but that's a waste now.

fluff like this is nothing new. question is when will it happen next? we are the last of this game. enjoy eachother.

I'd love to know that my personal data that has been spread around is all deleted as well, but that isn't going to happen. Now there are lists out there with my email, my cell phone, etc. Thank goodness I'm smart enough to use different passwords everywhere.

If serious action had not been taken, I am sure I would have quit the game. It is fluff like what was pulled by these fluffheads that is killing this community.

Jeremey, you realize we all know RD's history, right?

Clean it up? Are you drunk or stupid?

lol at criminals have rights too.


they fluffing shouldnt!

this situation is very different from the laf situation with hanlong.

hanlong never took people's private information/passwords. i'm pretty sure there are many security measures out there in real life to prevent that from happening.

Oh, I disagree with the pain you are expressing. We've been FS'd and woken up to dead countries for no good reason whatsoever. We restarted and moved on. At least we had decent leadership. RD members can restart and re-tag. It isn't like players have some permanent handicap. They have a handicap this set thanks to the actions of their leadership. Next set it will be even footing again, except that a fluff ton of people want to kill you.

Yes, RD has a history of running bots, and cheating, and so on- we all know this. However, how much cheating has taken place since moving to EE? I've been here for a few sets now, and 90% of the members have done nothing but play the game.

Unlike most people in this thread, I'll refrain from answering your petty condescending question with an insult. Have a beer (if you're old enough).

too much crying.

needs more boobies.

It is pretty fluffed up for anyone in RD that had no idea about it. But it's also pretty fluffed up to the alliances effected, no? The precedent set a year ago obviously didn't deter to the extent it was meant to.

Im not condoning any "actions" taken by anyone in RD, I just want factual evidence and not just finger pointing and the wasting of my time.

Laf got through it and is the strongest alliance in EE, you guys will be fine.

There is an excel spreadsheet going around with my contact details on it, and the details for all the other Alliance clans hosted on Boxcar except RD and SoF. (Makes you wonder). I have a personal attachment to this issue.

Yes, there are plenty of rumors flying around but I am positive that more than just three members of RD were guilty of disseminating what I thought was private information. I do feel bad for those RD members that play clean, have never cheated or taken advantage of the information that their clanmates cheated to obtain.

Not directly, no.

Having the source code means they had to pour through hundreds, if not thousands, of lines of code, to pick out which snippets of code they may be able to use. These snippets of code would have contained parts of queries performed by the web application to go get data out of the database that the application needed to do its job. These queries would have told the perpetrators the names of the tables needed to look through, how the database treated these queries, and how the application responded to odd inputs. In this particular case (I have not seen any proof of what happened in this particular case, it's just usually what happens), the data sought for would probably have been the usernames and (hashed) passwords. So the actual number of lines of code to sift through may have been much less than thousands. It may have all been contained in a single file.

Looking at the queries performed by the application would have given the perpetrators the knowledge of how they would need to construct a query that either would return the data requested, or return a basic error message (to show they were on the right track). They would have put this specially-constructed query in either the query string at the end of the URL for the login page to BoxCar, or, more likely, put it in certain text fields, such as those for the username and password.

Once the correct query had been entered, the data they would have received would have contained the usernames, hashed passwords, contact info, etc, of all the people in a single table in the database (or just the people in whatever alliance site they were targeting). The passwords would have probably been hashed in either sha512 or MD5, which is much weaker. If the passwords were hashed in MD5, they may not have even needed to be cracked--a simple lookup of the hash would tell you the true password.

LaF has the most loyal members in all of EE i believe. that is why we survived. RD on the other hand are basically opportunists (imo). their chance of survival is much lower.

Hey, you tag with the cheaters, you benefit from what the cheaters cheat to get, then you get to hang with the cheaters.

And for the record, your much too nice. A perma-ban for people (the active cheaters) who do damage to a service is kinda the minimum punishment. And a perma-ban on the tag would also be pretty appropriate. JMHO.

You my friend are a fluffing retard if you think just because I may or may not reuse my password here elsewhere makes it legal for you and your friends to hack me. Someone call out retard.

Punish the guilty, not the innocent.

Eug let's get serious mate. You (and IMHO not really SG) have done a lot to clean LaF up and I give big credit for that but let's call a spade a spade RD still has aliased members playing in most alliances on the server (including MD).

Rumors fly that Hanlong plays for example despite perma ban.

If we want any lessons to be learnt from the first TWO hacking scandals its that alliances need to start taking responsibility for their actions members and leaders alike.

I'm completely in favor of punishing entire alliances for leadership cheating. Its the harsh deterrent needed.

We need to get to a place where alliances are self reporting these things not waiting for the victims to uncover themselves.

I hope this sends a strong message to the other alliances on the server cheating. Stop it and report the offending leaders and members now. You know who you are. Because eventually all these things come out and when they do the new precedent seems to be scortched earth (and about bloody time!).

h4 cheated for god damned years, and still has access to our rd boxcar site.

you will delete him and all of laf? laf is ENTIRELY IMPLICIT in this scheme, this debauchery of your services. SoF and SoL are entirely, also.

Do I need to start revealing colour identities before we call fair, fair, pang?

No, braden, keep on protecting cheaters.

So you are aware of people cheating (prior to all of this) yet you kep it to yourself because you are benefitting from it?

Kinda make sense for Pang and co. to punish the whole tag

i am aware of people following the rules. I am also aware of people following the rules being deleted for rules violations.

I did everything they asked I do when I signed up, when I agreed to their terms.

I did *nothing* wrong

In hindsight, given their response, and the ban-evasion, they probably *should* all have been deleted. Though deleting them now for that would probably be a little late... heh

Pang not playing?
1) Pang had 1.5 year to fix problems.
2) He did nothing. *wonder why people not blame him for data breach and blame Copper&Silver&some unknown mighty member*
3) Paradigm got FSed.
4) Pang pop up and find out SQL injections from August (3 month, holy fluff, that also alot) and 2 weeks old data brech.

Yes, thats totaly random event wich have nothing with this war.



Is googlebot VPN, proxy or compromised computer? Sorry, i dont think its possible to stole IP from google bot. And whats the point of this IPs?



We all know Germany history. Lets use nuclear weapon on them and kill them all even if some of them are clean and better than most of us?

to be fair, i heard that some rd members did report some of this to mods.

Duna you are a retard, go back to mars...

never too late to do the right thing, qz. never too late, my friend.

as usual the actions of a few ruin it for the majority

further more, to say "it should have been right" but "it's too late, now, to do right" is an absolute joke.. did we get deleted the second we were *caught*, or was it after the fact?

after the fact for us now, and after the fact for them now.. sounds fair

You heard wrong.

you know this because as a leader in md you have full access to rd.. or, sorry, as a memebr of rd you have full access to md?

QZ: I'm still waiting to hear how this all traces back to RD leadership. Are you able to provide some proof? Can you 100% say for certain that RD leadership were responsible for any of the supposed hacking?

I'd also be interested to know if the compromised accounts had retarded passwords.

Why, does that make it legal to access someone else's account?

If you cant say something smart, then you better keep your fluff mouth closed. You know i dont play mars because of idiot admins.

so i had to reset my bc password.. as a member of rd, i hacked my own boxcar account?

balderdash, i tells ya. balderdash!

Yes, unfortunately; however, our deletions in the past clearly were ignored. There is also the issue that it appears to have been a small group within leadership, and that the information was passed around widely.

One of the principles that we were discussing that was neglected in the post was:

1) The Alliance as a WHOLE has derived SIGNIFICANT BENEFIT from the cheating/hacking in question
2) The actions are:
- a) Against the SPIRIT OF THE RULES
- b) HACKING of EE directly (there was actually some injection attacks directly against EE)
- c) HACKING of EE affiliate sites



Why not permabanned? We haven't entirely determined that, however we *HAVE* learned from our past deletions, and that has taught us that permabanning merely results in ban-evasion. We will see how we proceed, but for the moment, permabanning is a weak wrist-slap that doesn't help us a ton.

deleting non cheaters helps you a ton, how, exactly?

by explaining in no uncertain terms that my following the rules is fluffing irrelevant?

i'll join evo, i'll cheat, and you'll delete yourself?

that is a great question! i encourage you to follow your heart and get evo mass deleted!

no, i'd rather encourage pang not to be a fluff and delete his adored child laf for being proven worse cheaters than we're alleged to be

Permabanning does a fluffload more then deleted my fluffing country QZ.

HEY GUYS! LOCKET WAS DELETED! WE TOTALLY SHOULDNT CHEAT LIKE ASSHOLES AGAIN NOW RIGHT?

How the hell does this punishment have anything to do with deterring future issues? All you did with this punishment was get RD members pissed off at you guys instead of pissed off at the asshats who lied to us.

That's one crazy IP address Pang! :)

Die cheating scum, die!!! :D

Locket you ass clown. You should be pissed at who lied to you.you wouldn't have been deleted if they didn't hack!

locket, what exactly *would* make you pissed off at the asshats who lied to you, since apparently this did not?

Read what i said. I put a ton of personal time into my country and now it is gone. If they hadn't of deleted me I would have no reason to be mad at them. If they had deleted our boxcar then I could go on without having had MY personal time wasted.

Now instead of me being mad at Silver for lying to me just like Hanlong did, I am mad that my country is gone and that my personal effort has been wasted. And it was wasted because of a decision to delete an alliance as punishment for a crime that 3 of them committed. That punishment will do nothing to stop someone else from cheating in the future. And that is the real issue right there.

I am mad about it, although it is more of a sad "this again?" moment. However I am more mad about my wasted time now. I am tired of getting fluffed by leaders like that, but now I have had my personal time wasted because of an admin decision that wont change anything. Instead of me focusing all my anger on one thing it is now split at best.

Sorry Locket =(

You should be angry at your cheating leaderships instead of the Mods. If they did not cheat then your countries would still be alive and kicking ass in this war.

Pity that one of your cheating leaderships went 1 step too far and caused boxcar to crashed, causing Pang to do some digging. Otherwise you would all still be alive and cheating unoticed.

Play in a legit clan perhaps to avoid further issue on this? Or if you are loyal, then you could remake RD and try to make it clean this time, if possible....