apologies for any rudeness, not the intent.. as you said, rant :) <3

at a certain time, when i see boltar get nailed for literally thousands of acres, i have hit zero person with zero turns.. i carry a fair amount of tanks but not a million and a half. so, i mean, yea, it's my fault that i wasn't running a casher with .85mil cash per turn, because i need to run with six million tanks and fifteen million turrets and fourteen million troops?

i'll stop my rant from this sentence forward, but this, really, THIS, is the server we created? when can we get you all out and tso back in, at least with tso i could run fluffing diplomacy and play half of the game

what you offer fails worse than what we had before. i was one of the ones who wanted this.. but i was incorrect. like many, many things in my life, i was wrong.

'This guy has 20 missiles. He might use them on me! I must kill him, and everyone else on the server should be allowed to join!!'

A bit extreme, but that follows your logic. If one team wants to pre-emptively kill someone never having received a hit, that's ok. We haven't said it's not. If they want to do so and then multiple other teams also join in at the EXACT SAME TIME, that's incredibly fishy and sounds like exactly the type of thing we're trying to put a stop to.

There are some incredible flip-floppers on this server.

no, you are incorrect.

but, lets say he has fifty missiles? ten million jets, two million tanks?

how many top ten finishers will he destroy before you delete all of us for killing them?

so far, vamps maybe.. bolts was gonna win.. i was maybe not top five, but lets call it a safe bet i was gonna place somewhere well

until, you know, bolts and vamps and my reset were ruined?

delete them. we can't kill them, tella? fair, but the second you or any other serv er mod notices, deleted? him and his tag, to avoid their retribution?

i mean, we're still trying to iron out details, aren't we, in the whole spirit aspect of the rules aspect?

Who said you can't kill them? You guys and many other tags were hit, you had the green light to go for it.

Milfsex was never touched, and there was a 10 hour gap between the last hit the guy did and when the killrun started. They were deleted for joining in on a killrun started by misfits(who had a right to retaliate beyond a doubt). They were not defending themselves. They were not pre-emptively defending themselves either, as this guy was already in the process of being killed.

And please, can someone answer my question? What is a suicider?

but before he hit my.. my only recourse is to guess what defense i might need?

if i, because i'm neither blind nor ignorant of the game and how some wish to play it, that tag was NOT killed before it had a chance to suicide and end multiple players end results.

rank one was lost, anywhere from two to ten was lost twice.. if you ask us NOT preemptively to defend ourselves against oobvious and known suiciders, ie the countries that martian and you now have both said will NOT be protected.. instead of waiting for us to kill them, and you delete whomever breaks arbitrary rules, why do you not just delete the assholes we're killing, and save you and us a great deal of aggravation?

why isn't suiciding against the rules? me runnning two troop countries to gs down a target is no worse than one tank country ab'ing a nobody with minimal tanks because he hit the explore button and holds zero jets, eh?

If he was an obvious and known suicider, then why wasn't he killed by a team before that? Why did it take 3 days before you all decided it was a problem? According to you, someone should have stepped up and taken care of it, but nobody did and he was allowed to continue hitting people.

Braden, what is suiciding? Please give me a direct answer..

"Untagged" players/suiciders aren't protected under the rules. This guy is in a team of 5.

Rank Name Score
1 afaik $2,258,692,208
2 braden $1,820,769,022
3 trainboy $1,394,663,722
4 cyref $1,345,373,286
5 ingle $1,253,052,198

three questions,
1) who had quit?
2) who plays in weedylar?
3) oh yea, there is no third. everybody else has quit.

now.. at two.. with fluffs ab'ing me for fluff reasons.. really, how much longer is your most die hard player going to play? really.. i mean.. you don't give me money, incentives, even a half hearted promise my effort won't be ruined in fourteen seconds..?

if you expect us to play without pacts or allies dps l or dare say f? suicides will need to be deleted like, literally on the quarter minute--- so, delete every fifteen seconds, or let us play politics

want to try that one again?

look at my news

you play in evo.. i play in lcn.. i toss those hits at you, you're cool with it, because BY YOUR WORDS I DID NOT SUICDIDE WHAT IS A SUICIDE?

no no no no no.. it took me loossing X acres for weedylar to """"""defend""""""" itself

me knowing it will happen is """"""""not relevant"""""""""" because they hadn't hit me yet!!!!!

your words, i lova ya, but your words

Oh shut up. You were deleted and reinstated, and that was before we got a firm decision on the new rules in detail.

braden, calm down for a second and answer the question. What is a suicider?

According to Boltar, a suicider attacks one or multiple tags not expecting to live through the outcome. I guess all of DANGER are suiciders then. Or maybe TPA/Rival are both suiciders as well, since the deck was stacked against them from the start and they were unlikely to win/survive. If LCN declares war on Laf, then I guess LCN are suiciders as well?

I've heard some people say 'suiciders play just to ruin other people's resets'. By THAT definition, most warring tags are suiciders as well. If this is the definition, what is the difference between 3 warring tags gangbanging a netting tag, and suiciding? How about just ONE 5-man tag warring a netting tag with no provocation? If I am netting and I get killed by any tag, regardless of the reason, my set has just been ruined.

So maybe it's just if it's one country hitting one or more other tags? Then why do people fluff so much when a 2-man team attacks a 5-man team out of the blue? And did you all fail to notice that this one country was in a 5-man tag?

So please, give me a solid definition on what suiciding is?

I was still deleted for 36 hours, which cost me about 6milish networth if my math is correct from what I remember my country was making prior to destock

ok, i apologize further.. but before you answer my question, read the news and the question that follows.

Time Type Attacker Tag Defender Tag Result
2014-05-01 17:07:38 AB i retal with missiles (#52) EuroIX nina dobrev is an angel (#1) weedylar 276B
2014-05-01 17:07:38 AB i retal with missiles (#52) EuroIX nina dobrev is an angel (#1) weedylar 282B
2014-05-01 17:07:38 AB i retal with missiles (#52) EuroIX nina dobrev is an angel (#1) weedylar 286B
2014-05-01 17:07:38 AB i retal with missiles (#52) EuroIX nina dobrev is an angel (#1) weedylar 294B
2014-05-01 17:07:37 AB i retal with missiles (#52) EuroIX nina dobrev is an angel (#1) weedylar 298B
2014-05-01 17:07:37 AB i retal with missiles (#52) EuroIX nina dobrev is an angel (#1) weedylar 305B
2014-05-01 17:07:37 AB i retal with missiles (#52) EuroIX nina dobrev is an angel (#1) weedylar 312B
2014-05-01 17:07:37 AB i retal with missiles (#52) EuroIX nina dobrev is an angel (#1) weedylar 318B
2014-05-01 17:07:36 AB i retal with missiles (#52) EuroIX nina dobrev is an angel (#1) weedylar 326B
2014-05-01 17:07:36 AB i retal with missiles (#52) EuroIX nina dobrev is an angel (#1) weedylar 332B
2014-05-01 17:07:35 AB i retal with missiles (#52) EuroIX nina dobrev is an angel (#1) weedylar 341B




DO YOU KNOW WHAT A SUICIDER IS, BECAUSE, LIKE, YOU`RE KIND OF MAYBE EXPECTED TO. DO I KNOW? YES, STUPID WELL, BECAUSE I CONSTANTLY AND CONSISTENTLY AND WITHOUT fluffING FAIL SUICIDED BECAUSE I DO WELL

the fact that you ask the question is a little dismeaning, but anybody else other than me that you ask that will very well show you by evosssosssssssossso news

but, unlike others, i have zero interest in ruining anybodys efforts

And I've apologized for that. Nobody has been deleted for defending themselves since we've instituted the newest version of the rules. Does that work for you, elves?

it works for elves when i get my buildings my money and my turns back

and my third place finish. can not forget that.

and yes, one goes to bolts for his honest win- we all knew it would happen, thats why him and i were hit, heh

I know what 'I' would consider suiciding. I'm here to find out YOUR definition of suiciding. If you want us to delete 'suiciders' it would help to have a working definition of what a suicider is.

actions where the expected result is a dead country would be my definition of a suicider, even though some of us could get away without losing the country to normal means under the current black and white rules.

and yes, that works a lot better. I'm a virgo, I nitpick details like that :p

doobie or jer bu, i forget which, likely both and maybe even if i was lucky callipygian used to call me willfully ignorant when i defended rd or it's ancillary properties.

you now, remind me of me, when i was fourteen.

hits the winning country for 15k acres, winner now has no chance.
hits the second to lets call it fifth ranked country with abs for 3400 acres and fluff load of cs
these two things right here, right? i do that from lcn to evo, and we're cool, right, based off this same logic? or fluff not cool, you know, because you fluffed with people winning or competeting?

but still, all this fluff is cool against evo? or maybe, the way in allance you would demand reps or WARRRRRRR, we might, as well, here?
hashtag a semblance of common sense?

[03:50] <elvesrus> xxxxxxxx
[03:56] <braden1> xxxxxx
[03:57] <braden1> xxxxxxxx
[03:57] <braden1> xxxxxxxx
[03:57] <braden1> ixxxxxxx
[03:57] <braden1> xxxxxx
[03:57] <braden1> ixxxxxxxx
[03:59] <elvesrus> hxxxxxxx


OH EMMM GEE, DELETEION, THEY DARED TALK EARTH WHILE ONE WAS LOGGED INto TEAM UH OH!?

Danger only hits people that hit them,

IMO a suicider is one country be it untag or in a tag, attacks one or multiple alliance on there own, with out being provoked, in a manor to cause as much damage as possible (sometimes this part is not successful lol) knowing that the result will be their country killed.

as a representative of lcn i refuse publicly to acknoledge tellas AWFUL MISREPRESENTATION OF THE [CLAN] DANGER AND THE WONDERFUL PEOPLE WHOM IT HOLDS AS FRIEND AND FAMILY

Suiciding is part of the game. Also boltar swingle didn't participate because we couldn't get the turns to do it solo. We saw your KR and was going to join in mid run but we are uncertain regarding the rules. If you play with irc open it's quite easy to join in mid run.

Also Braden calm down. There's no point arguing with tella. There's no net benefit as he won't change the rules and to be honest what can he really do? I'm pissed I got suicided on as well. Weird because we have never hit euro before and to suddenly get my set ruined is quite disappointing.

suiciding may well be part of the game, so is killing

no i said suiciding is when u attack someone without recourse and dont expect to live..

right after the country died.. one of the swingle guys started LG'ing.. one if not more of u were online and had turns.. and to be honest. id had been happy if u had 10 turns.. and threw 3 attacks and 2 missiles atleast it would look like u tried

Boltar that's the problem we were on and ready to hit. However would that count as a deletable offense. At the moment we still aren't sure.

The problem is the server rules aren't quite clear under these "new situations" since the rule change. I lost almost 8k buildings and 1.3k land. My set is ruined as I know I have no chance to win. In fact I have PMed you in game asking for clarification regarding the server rules as I am unsure how much we can help.

ahh that was u? well, according to tella misfits/roughsex (maybe)/weedylar/swingle can kill said country maybe tag.. however i think u guys can still LG that tag.. not sure about farming.. and i saw the news about the missiles, i think id rather lose 8k buildings and 1.3k land compared to my 17k land ;)

Yes boltar that was me. While I understand we are able to grab and hit euro what about coincidental KRs. Most of us in Swingle have irc news channel open so it's quite easy to spot a KR even without highlights. So some clarification on joining in would greatly help.

There is no point in blaming tella. These are new situations under new rules. We should work together to refine the rules.

Boltar it's a shame what happened to your country. Definitely looked like a win especially after those retals. Ironically I get suicided the most on team.

Taking away preemptive actions for a moment...

Is anyone claiming that the country that was killed in the [allegedly] coordinated kill run did NOT suicide?

I agree with this as a definition of suicider

I'm more interested to know who ran that country.

yea i thought i was a shoe in to win, with my land and very decent tech %, it is what it is.

Well if the name of the tag has any truth too the players that are in it, the person would be from Europe and used to be an IXer. That should narrow it down some;)

why keep bashing on tella? he didn't write these rules people. It's his job to enforce written rules. Stop whining for fluff sake.

Again, this definition doesn't really distinguish between a small tag/alliance attacking a larger one(where the outcome is all but assured), and a single country doing the same thing.



It's pretty clear that if he hit you, you absolutely can hit him back and kill him. There's nothing stopping you from doing that. What you cannot do, however, is run a joint killrun with other teams. The issue of #64 is not that he helped kill the offending country(despite the fact that his tag mate already took retals, but that's really beside the point), the issue is that it appeared that he did so alongside misfits in a chat. After talking with scode, he assures me that #64 didn't coordinate, and simply joined in when he saw it, and that's fine. Hence, he has not been deleted.




I don't think I ever said he wasn't a suicider. The problem is that people are using this word left and right, and calling for moderators to ban all suiciders, without having a common definition of what exactly a suicider is. If you want us to use our own judgement, that's fine. But as I have seen first hand, you don't want that. You want 100% clear, well-defined rules to cover any and every situation with zero gray-area. That's a pretty tall order....

The new rules that I posted were created after a lot of discussion between the moderators, and after receiving boatloads of feedback from you, the players(and yes, I read more or less every damn thread and talked to several prominent people for hours). We have tried to cover every base we could think of, and I'm sure you all recognize that we can never provide a 100% detailed list of rules for every situation. Even if we could, people wouldn't read them(ie what happened with #9 and #34) as they would be far too long..



Personally, I more or less agree with this definition. But again, what is the difference between 1 country doing that, and 2? If a 2-man team takes on a 5-man team full of experienced warriors, is that really different? Is the difference only the number of countries involved? If 1 country does it, it's suiciding, if multiple countries do it, it's war? Why can't I play a country and try to do as much damage as I can and go out in a blaze of glory? What if I had a bone to pick based on previous sets and tried to do the same, should I then be deleted for it? If I play this way on primary or express, it's fine. But if I do the exact same thing on team server, it's now suiciding.

If you want us to enforce something like this, there has to be some solid definition to start from. Isn't that what you all want?

tella i drink farrr too much in my life, i apologize for any rudeness or curtness from.. last night carrrynig into this morning bud :(

you and the rest all do do great work :/

So the country that was killed in the kill run was a suicider by all accounts.

Good to know suiciders are protected on this server from those they do not hit.

Yeah well the guy nuked my land, but I just let boltar and Co kill him after I got all my land back and than some from a PS, so were all happier. I have no complaints.

he sent a couple Chems my way but I figured that with all the psychokillers that play on the Team server he was bound to get killed so I just stayed out of it, and happily netted. Ah, the peaceful life of the happy netter

My question is what's the whole point of this entire argument? Why is everyone arguing about what they're arguing about? Why does tella keep asking what a suicider is? Out with it pls. Does braden have a rules-related complaint about being suicided? I mean, people get suicided by assholes, it happens.

What's the subtext of this discussion? Get down to it. Is it that the server should be able to all join together and kill a problem country, even if some tags (ie milfsex) were never harmed?

"Personally, I more or less agree with this definition. But again, what is the difference between 1 country doing that, and 2? If a 2-man team takes on a 5-man team full of experienced warriors, is that really different? Is the difference only the number of countries involved? If 1 country does it, it's suiciding, if multiple countries do it, it's war? Why can't I play a country and try to do as much damage as I can and go out in a blaze of glory? What if I had a bone to pick based on previous sets and tried to do the same, should I then be deleted for it? If I play this way on primary or express, it's fine. But if I do the exact same thing on team server, it's now suiciding."

I dont agree suiciders should be deleted, they are part of the game and need to be accepted, I just posted my definition.

With regards to your other questions, yes 2 countries is different, its organised (sure with small numbers) and there is less chance you will both be killed straight away, eg you can fa the other guys restart before you die and so fourth.

'If 1 country does it, it's suiciding, if multiple countries do it, it's war?' Yes

'Why can't I play a country and try to do as much damage as I can and go out in a blaze of glory? ' you can according to the rules, these should not be changed imo.

'What if I had a bone to pick based on previous sets and tried to do the same, should I then be deleted for it' again imo no.

Blid, as I mentioned before, many people are accusing us of 'protecting suiciders' and are calling for us to delete and/or ban suiciders. If we are ever to do such a thing, we need to know what constitutes a suicider.

Forget preemptively deleting suiciders for a minute.

The moderators deleted countries participating in the kill run of a blatant suicider - by their own definition of whatever it is that actually constitutes a "suicider"

How is that not protecting suiciders?

Its not protecting suiciders, its protecting the rules of the game, They deleted one country that particpated in the kill run of a suicider, that one country was not wanted nor needed in the kill run, it was not affected by the suicider, it had no right particpating in the kill run.

If all the tags that were affected by the suicide couldnt kill the country then they deserve to be suicided.

The other country that got deleted hit a country that had not made one single attack all reset.

So the rules of the game protect suiciders. Thanks for clarifying.