"It wouldn't all sell and some of y'all would be stuck" That's true regardless of price though. And it would only be at the very end of the reset where it matters, it's like musical chairs.

"It's not inelastic, some people attack less, or store turns, or build rigs."
Most people would not change who they grab just because oil price is higher than "normal". In all honesty, would you hit someone w/ less D (and probably less NW so lower returns) just because oil is $250 instead of $100? And due to a limit in # of turns you can have, you can only store turns for so long, so it's a matter of who is more patient, buyers or sellers. Yeah some ppl will build rigs, but it's not worth for most strats. Basically the ceiling price of oil should be cost of building 1 rig vs a strat's bldg (IC, bus/res, labs, MB).

Crest23, grow up, learn to argue without personal insults. Like I said, oil isn't a perfectly elastic good. I guarantee you if I put my 3m oil at $50 (vs the $145 it's at now) the same amount of oil will sell and equilibrium price will drop (assuming there's no one trying to drive prices up artificially by doing buyouts) because excess oil is useless sitting around in a country. In express there is still a delay. In 15-45 mins the price can vary a lot so you still play it safe and sell lower. Not sure how old you are, but have you ever had to trade in the stock market w/ a 15 min delayed quote?

Xinhuan, oil price equilibrium is arbitrary due to what I mentioned above - oil is an inelastic good. If price of oil started at $500 in the reset and everyone only undercut by $1 at a time, "equilibrium" for oil today would be in the $400's. In the end it's the average oil price from past resets that makes ppl think the 'normal' price should be $90 this early in the reset.

Essentially what I'm arguing is demand for oil is inelastic - ppl won't buy more if price drops, ppl won't buy less if it rises - instead they'll buy what they need for each hit. Therefore its up to suppliers to determine price (Look at medicine prices in the US).

Also crest23, things you learn in B-School or econ are based on perfect world scenarios in a vacuum enviornment. I started my first business venture when I was 18, there are ALWAYS more factors to consider in the real world, otherwise every business should succeed if management ever took a single business class. So before you go insulting ppl, learn to look at the whole forest and not just a single tree.

It's the amount ppl undercut by at a time that I'm referring to.

There are a few other factors that make EE an imperfect market example and thus economic theories aren't perfect.

1. Many n00bs in game who aren't trying to maximize profits
If the price is at $250 why would someone sell at $90? Why not sell at $249? And then $248? etc. until you reach an equilibrium? In the real world that's what happens because corporations are trying to maximize profits. In EE there are just too many idiots who are just trying to sell their crap so they'll sell at whatever price they want, even at a 50%+ discount.

2. The 6-8 hour transit time to sell vs. real-time bid system.
Sellers who want to sell their oil right away will sell at the current bid price hoping the bid is still there when their goods reach market. On the flip side, because bidders have to wait at least 6-8 hours to have their orders filled most don't use it but rather they'll buy at the market price. So the bid price isn't an accurate representation of what ppl are actually willing to pay. So even if demand pushes equilibrium price up, someone with a lot of supply who always sells at current bid price will just keep pushing the price back down because their supply is more than the bid qty (since so few ppl use it) and thus the market price is lowered, and each subsequent person then sells at a lower price of that big block. If both were real time and all buyers use the bid system then yes, real world economics would make sense (see stock market) and the bid vs ask price would differ by a few dollars, that's when you'd get a true equilibrium. The 6-8 hour goods to market time also means ppl aren't selling at the optimum price. Because sellers don't know what prices will be in 6-8 hours they'll undercut by more than $1 at a time, hoping they are the lowest price when their goods reach market - thus an imperfect market (though it still doesn't make sense to undercut by 50%+).

3. And most importantly: No price floor + n00bs who don't know how to calculate a competitive price per barrel to other strats to figure out the floor.
With no private market to buy or sell oil there is no obvious price floor, so n00bs just sell at whatever price they want. I did the calculation a few resets ago, from what I recall a fascist with equal amount built in farms and rigs and no agri tech would make the same amount of $ if they sold oil at about 3x food price. And because most farmers have tech, oil prices should theoretically have a floor at a minimum of 3x food price for it to be a competitive strat. If all oilers knew this, then the price of oil should start at the floor price every round - and if every oiler was aiming to maximize NW then no, the price wouldn't go down because ppl are still going to make the same LG if oil price is $70 or $150, aka demand is essentially constant round to round depending on when in the reset you are at (assuming same # of players).

haha yes I understand supply/demand, I was an econ major. But the fact that ppl under cut by so much is what's annoying. I mean in the real world, when theres a oil surplus the price of oil comes down slowly. And when there is a deficit prices go up fast. But then again real world oil companies are all in agreement with each other when it comes to pricing =/

Naptime?!

It's pretty ridiculous how oil prices can go from $250 to $90 in less than 24 hours. At $250/barrel an oiler could to pretty well.. but for some reason there are just so many n00bs who think its a good idea to undercut by $100+... 50% discount are you kidding me?!

Sigh, well it was all fun and games until he decided to spam my military stats to a bunch of countries. Looks like I stopped his spies and him after all, and now he needs help to keep me bogged down in 'mediocracy'.

haha why help? He seems to have it all figured out =P

hahaha this guy... I told him how useless his attacks were, how it'd only take a few turns to cure bioterrorism and to get that population back.. and he says that me telling him those stats show how this game means so much to me lol... has this guy never played before?!?! lollll

It's kinda awesome that he keeps putting me in DR, I can grab all I want and not worry about big retals!

16.1 hours ago
Enemy operatives caused 1615 civilians to flee our lands!

16.1 hours ago
Enemy operatives stole 65 bushels of food and lit 0 on fire as they fled!

16.1 hours ago
Enemy operatives killed 429 of your spies!

16.1 hours ago
Enemy operatives poisoned our water supplies! Only our scientists can save us now!

16.1 hours ago
Guerillas from Beerland (#161) have invaded your lands!
Their forces broke through your defences!
They destroyed:
184 Civilians
52 Bushels Your military lost:
1 Troops Their military lost:
4000 Troops

16.1 hours ago
Guerillas from Beerland (#161) have invaded your lands!
Their forces broke through your defences!
They destroyed:
186 Civilians
50 Bushels Your military lost:
1 Troops Their military lost:
4000 Troops

16.1 hours ago
Guerillas from Beerland (#161) have invaded your lands!
Their forces broke through your defences!
They destroyed:
187 Civilians
49 Bushels Your military lost:
1 Troops Their military lost:
4000 Troops

16.1 hours ago
Guerillas from Beerland (#161) have invaded your lands!
Their forces broke through your defences!
They destroyed:
188 Civilians
48 Bushels

He then sends this message:
--------------------------------------
I kid you not biatch, your progress in this game just came to a halt. You can't stop my spies and you can't stop me. I can't beat you but I can bog you down to mediocracy. Go cry to you ally to protect you from me again. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. B1tch.
--------------------------------------

Guys, I'm not sure whether to laugh or feel sorry for him and his rainbow of a country. He thinks 2k civs killed (I'm a farmer), 65 bushels of food, and a bioterrorism is bogging me down to "mediocracy"...

i swear this set is full of n00bs

bah

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lol I had to scroll up to make sure I wasn't in a different thread. Giving up a few tech points for someone who allows me to farm him is a fair trade off IMO =P I just have to make sure I have enough D where he won't retal me, that hurts more than a few tech pts.

a

z

azn! We should reform the azn alliance again.. was anyone in that besides me?

we should do an all explore set for one set just to see what happens

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#47, #63 DT'ed you.. ok fine haha 2 ppl also DT'ed you. And crest I usually just find the fattest person I can find w/ the lowest NW/DR and hit. I don't usually look at my history to see if I've hit or not.. but I guess I will now =T

heh yea honestly I didn't even realize I had hit him twice until he AB'ed and I checked my news to see how he was able to AB me. sign and I only made 6 LG's all reset..

wow I hit a guy once yesterday morning and then this afternoon and he claims I double tapped him so he AB'ed me down. Funny cuz other ppl actually multitapped him and he didn't do anything to them... some ppl are just classless

asdf

z

z

someone's hungry...

i was wondering what the 3880 was, and I realized you copied/pasted your market screen hah

DONE!

We're "complaining" because, like you said, Rival clearly lost, but instead of just admitting it and ending this now meaningless war they double their membership to drag it on so they can claim they kept up with us or got more kill than us.

Given the way certain Rival officers talk on the board I suppose I'm not surprised they need to double membership to ramp up kills on restarts to make themselves feel like they didn't lose, or not by that much at least.

confirmed

I did respect him, that's why I stopped pushing the issue, then you came on and got all offensive in your post.



Why couldn't you just say that the first time instead of being so offensive and avoiding all of this? I pointed it out on AT because there are people following the war outside of the officers of both alliances who might not noticed the change in membership #. And FYI I was VP of an alliance 9 years ago when I last played.



I don't like it when people feel the need to belittle ppl right off the bat to say something (and it looks like you're still doing it). Honestly that bugs the hell out of me, why do it? It's got nothing to do with anything and it's the worse way to communicate - I really hope that's not how you talk to your significant other or children or family. I mean honestly Chand, if someone said these lines to you wouldn't you feel that person was trying to make themselves out to be better than you? Wouldn't you be peeved?

"I feel quite sad for you."
"you choose to whine/complain/point out irrelevant things"
"you are no one"
"of no worth"
"Not a authority figure of any importance."
"I think you should worry more about your country's defences."
"I'm posting this reply as I want no rants from you"

7 different phrases to make yourself seem superior to me.. and then you have the audacity to say

"I just cannot tolerate arrogant behaviour, be it anyone."

That's all I have to say on this topic. You want to say more derogatory things that have nothing to do with the discussion fine, I'm no longer reading this thread.

Just remember Chand, you turned a civil conversation into aggressive insults, not me.

Wow congrats on being a fluff Chand. It was a simple question of how you guys got more members all of a sudden. No whining, no complaining, no pointing out irrelevant things. I never accused you guys of being multi's or taking SOF/LAF members. It was a simple question that you guys had to make all political.

And FYI I don't need to be an authority figure of any importance to ask you guys a question on AT. It's a forum buddy, for a game... A GAME. I bet you're some loser living his mom's basement that can't get respect in RL so you come on here acting all big and tough from your virtual "authority". Congrats, feel like a big man?

rgr that Red X. Hah ironic, cuz this is AT =P

I don't need to know specifically who, just where they came from. Friends of members, retired members, etc.

Why can't you say on here who these new ppl are?

Just wondering how you guys got +8 members in the last 3 days.. can you tell me who is running these countries?

Yeah with your new recruits. Couldn't beat us fair huh?

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW POLY. What happens in our WC stays in our WC!

fine by us

oh awesome i'm out in allston

where in MA are you??

I don't see many good return hits from RIVAL

Thanks. It only took 1 jet =D

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