Hmm.

I guess DM will have to return and give a little better explanation than he is opening an ant playground so we all can understand what he is trying to say.

That makes you no less wrong about allowing gays to marry.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
(Gods Will should not be bypassed by any law of the land)


The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. (the people as a whole have the right to pursue God as they see fit, not to be interfered with by laws of the nation)

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively(like deciding who can and cannot marry), or to the people. (the people can decide and voice their decisions, by a vote, on how matters not directly addressed in the constitution, shall be handled)

If you notice across to the right of the names it lists site access levels. He has no special site access. It shows who holds senate positions and so forth.....

I think that is what he is trying to show.

"Deriving their just power from the consent of the governed." (People vote, laws get passed.)

"the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them" (Gods law dictates what is right, and wrong)

"We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions," (we appeal to the Supreme judge of the world... God)

"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence," (we rely on Gods protection)

Their entire declaration was, in their words, brought forward with the assistance of God.

God is very clear about same sex coupling. Gods will is supposed to be directing the path of the USA. Allowing gay marriage is not in good keeping with that.

I will address why you are wrong about the constitution in my next post.

Poor Bauer

Everyone picks on him so much. LOL

Way to make friends man.

*returns TwizTids teddy bear*

Sorry that wasn't them, I kinda borrowed that without your permission the other day. I feel bad about getting those countries killed over a teddy bear.

Okay, I'm over it now.

True MM that the Pilgrims did not frame the constitution. I guess now reading my previous post I did not word that very well.

You are right the about the Puritans they did have money to back their establishments. They each however lived in their own colony based on their beliefs. Kind of like their own little suburb.

You cannot deny that when the constitution was "Framed" the above statements about what "all men" and "In God we trust" was, because the founders meant for a morals based society to prevail in this land. They all followed a faith with God as the one divine being that we all answered to. They also did not believe that the government should be able to tell their "suburb" or "community of faith" what was or was not acceptable.

As to other nations having different freedoms and not being jealous of the "American way of life" I would say you are correct. I have been to several other nations around the globe and there are many who enjoy their way of life. I enjoyed my time with them very much and am happy that their way of life works for them. They can all stay right where they are and make changes, as they can, and see fit, in their own nations. I did, and still do not, presume to tell them what those changes should be. I would appreciate if they would do the same.

Please remember I did not start this thread with an assigning off color statement. That was a resident of another country, once again, trying to impose a foreign opinion/idea on me/us.

Your question as to what has the government dictated to a religion in this country. Outside of your previous reference I think this would be the only other time. Fortunately it has not become a law yet, and hopefully never will. That is the point though. Do not let the politicians bring a law in that dictates what a religion will accept and be forced to allow. Do not let our "One nation under God" go that far outside of Gods laws. "One nation under God with liberty and justice for all." Let the same sex couples have the same protections "justice" but keep the core of the nation "under God"

As for the Baptist church that is going to the funerals and causing a scene. That is the only way they can get to the lime light. It sucks that they try to use the dead who fight for their rights to raise their message, but that is the twisted society we live in today.

Dragonlance,
Your post does not deserve an intelligent response, but the bible directs me to do unto others as you would have done unto you, so I will simply say "Pull your head out. There is sunshine and clean air outside of your dark abyss.". I would hope that the church you attend inspires you to look within yourself and live by what your heart tells you is right. That fellowship among believers in Gods word will help you to feel Gods strength in your soul and inspire you be the best person you can be.

I strongly beg to differ that the founding fathers were not religious. They opposed the exact kind of thing that is happening today, which is the state trying to dictate to religions what they will and will not accept.

They opposed the "state" telling them what religion was acceptable, but very much believed that God was the supreme being and that His divinity and direction would lead their path to a strong and glorious nation. For example "In God we trust"

I thought it was common knowledge that the definition of a "man" as in "all men are created equal" was a 21 year old, white male landowner. That did not include women or property of the before mentioned men.

Men were tarred and feathered and women were branded to wear a scarlet A on their clothes for adultery. Sodomy was punishable by death just as in the story of Soddam and Gamora in the bible.(Though they were usually hung or executed by firing squad not turned to pillars of salt)

I am a little set back by your last post MM. Up until that post I thought you were better versed in our history than that.

I have friends of many different colors and nationalities, but our great "forefathers" never envisioned that their property or "machines" for lack of a better modern day term, would ever be able to own a home or cast a vote.

Even Abraham Lincoln as late as the 1860's, during his illegal and unconstitutional war (topic for another thread), said that if he could end the conflict and maintain the Union without freeing a single salve he would do it. He even went so far as to set up a country in Africa called Liberia and offer to ship any slave who fought for the North there.

Also when you look at a black man and a white woman getting married, or vise versa, there is no verse or chapter that I can find to speak against it. There are entire sections of the Bible that speak against same sex couples.

Do not try to put the term "marriage" on a same sex coupling. It is not appropriate. They do deserve protection under the law. Make civil unions carry the same weight as a marriage.


Popcom:

There is no other country in the world that even compares, not even close, to giving their citizens civil liberties, and respecting their human rights, or civil rights. In Canada you can be arrested for inciteful speech, or for speaking against gay marriage from the pulpit. Not in America. In Canada you can be stopped in mass on the highway and have your vehicle or person searched, just because. Not in America. There is no other country on this planet that treats it's people as good or gives the civil liberties that America does. That is a fact.

The Pilgrims and our founding fathers came to America to practice Christianity free from the money grubbing churches of England. They were called Puritans. They believed that each person had an intimate relationship with God and that the priests were taking money and offering up penance for misdeeds that were not appropriate. They believed that God was reached through his son Jesus Christ, not through how much you payed to the church in your tithe. Thus they came here and made a clear distinction between what the state ie: government could tell a religion to do or accept.

^^ LOL

Nice definition, but you're reading the wrong book!

I'm sorry to see this thread taking this direction of discussion. It really has little to do with right and wrong it is just that the definition of marriage does not fit and should not be applied to same sex civil unions.

That does not mean same sex civil unions could not carry the same weight, or responsibilities as a marriage, under the law. It is not one law for the left and one for the right. It is a way to bring about equal treatment under the law without regulating what a religion will and will not except. Do not allow the government to start telling religions what they will and will not except, as the next step from there is telling people what religion they will or will not follow.

Think of it like this:

Can I walk the streets of any town completely naked?

No.

Why?

It is considered indecent exposure and I can be arrested.

Who considers it indecent?

The majority of the people in the nation.

So the majority decides what is acceptable and unacceptable?

Yes.

So if there is a public vote, ie: California, and they say same sex marriage is not acceptable then that is just okay?

Yes. It was put to the people to vote on and they overwhelmingly made a decision.

What about the gays who don't care about the "perks" or whatever of a civil union and want to be "married"?

I would tell them that we live in a democracy with laws that are to be followed, but that as a majority, we can change. So get their case on the ballot and when the voters say it is acceptable by a high enough margin to get it approved then they will be able to do that. Until then it is the way it is.

And please do not compare this to being "separate but equal" as that definition just insults the people who worked, marched and even died to bring equality to the black community. There are no separate drinking fountains for gays, they do not have to send their kids to different schools or have them ride different buses. They do not have to give up their seat and move to the back if a straight person wants to sit down. Same sex marriage does not compare.

I vote for the latter.

I can already hear the conversation:

"Hey dude welcome back. Where have you been for so long?"

"Man it was totally crappy, I was minding my own business acting like a fool and basically being a jerk to every one on the forums and next thing I know I got Gregg'd."

Too funny.

so did they actually kill your country or just ruin it to such an extent that you will not finish in the top 10 or 25 now? If you are still alive and have the turns you could probably take at least one of them completely out of the game as in "Your country was destroyed because it possesses no civilians" out of the game

it sounds like you have much more military and NW to work with than they do

that is not an insult to me

i have never run a full netting set until that country and was hit 5 or 6 times before i tagged up plus missed 2 full weeks of the set due to a long trip in the mountains with no cell service so no way to play my country

the point i was trying to make is that in ten attempts on my own in Express and only one set with netting guidance and no war i have not yet figured out how to get really great gains

oh and thanks to the couple people that have chosen to help me learn more quickly i am really looking forward to start of the next set now

and the term makes great sense in other servers with clans and multiple members to help take out the offender

just kinda hoping there could be a different term applied to the action on this server since that one is a bad fit

i couldn't come up with one on my own so was hoping someone else had an idea of another more fitting term

we could call it Bauer'ing except he is committing suicide so that doesn't really work here

any other ideas?

I do play in FFA, but again there is tag/clan protection there and established rules for LG's that most if not all the clans enforce. Almost every time I play here someone ends up farming me a bunch of times in a row and I spend a ton of money switching to a dict or tyr and over a full days turns making their country name red. Then end up at 3 or 4mil NW. I am looking to learn a way to avoid that happening.

I was in an awesome clan last set that did great at giving direction and was able to get my first 49mil finish ever. There is no clan protection in express though so there must be different requirements to finish well without getting picked apart.

I don't think my all x democracy farmer will work as well here. At least the times I have tried it I have been grabbed mercilessly and it requires a government switch to do an effective kill on the offenders.

Need a better method and am willing to try a new strat.

Thanks de1i

I moved the post and created a thread there. Guess i am more tired than I realized..

teach me teh netting ways and maybe i can avoid becoming detah from over grabbing bastages

I would love to know how to grow any country to 20mil NW on this server. Any government type is fine with me. My best in 10 attempts has been 10mil NW and a 17th place finish with my country "Not the gumdrop buttons" during reset 26. Maybe I just lack the intelligence required to get any higher?

I will be allied to anyone who finished in the top ten and is willing to let me follow their strat next set. Just send me a PM and I will send you my country number for pacts. I will share tech, def, off, or whatever you require from my country. I want to learn how to net in this crazy server.

I will even kill any country that grabs you more than 5 times in a row as long as you don't drop our alliances so I can see how your country is built all the way to the end of the set.

Absolutely not joking. I can admit I do not know how to net here and would really appreciate a teacher.

I understand if one person does the spy op and the other does the grab that that would be wrong, but during times of war is it okay that both people on a safe list attack the same country at the same time as the rest of the clan? I do mean like from 2 computers with 2 countries that are safe listed both running turns at the same time, not one right after the other.

teach me teh netting ways and maybe i can avoid becoming detah from over grabbing bastages

I would love to know how to grow any country to 20mil NW on this server. Any government type is fine with me. My best in 10 attempts has been 10mil NW and a 17th place finish with my country "Not the gumdrop buttons" during reset 26. Maybe I just lack the intelligence required to get any higher?

I will be allied to anyone who finished in the top ten and is willing to let me follow their strat next set. Just send me a PM and I will send you my country number for pacts. I will share tech, def, off, or whatever you require from my country. I want to learn how to net in this crazy server.

I will even kill any country that grabs you more than 5 times in a row as long as you don't drop our alliances so I can see how your country is built all the way to the end of the set.

Absolutely not joking. I can admit I do not know how to net here and would really appreciate a teacher.

Edit:

Wow so lack of sleep is nearly as bad as too much alcohol. LOL

I agree Twain. If churches want to perform the marriages then let them. Do not force them. I may have already said this, but the government should recognize that a contract has been entered into and recognize that contract. The government is not in the business of regulating morality.

A marriage is defined by the Bible, not the lawmakers.

The state issues marriage certificates as a revenue source. Change the title, create more revenue, and get the hell out of what i or anyone else thinks is moral.

If you mean the gov't (the tail) pushing the people left and right (wagging the dog) then yes I agree.

Not the first time this has hapened. We lived through JFK and FDR and all the other socialists who got elected, and in time we will recover from this commie/socialist in office as well.

If you read the first line of my first post you will see I said:

"You are exactly right Bsnake. Marriage is a religious term for when a man and woman join together to share a life and blah blah blah.... "

and later I said:

"Pass laws to identify that civil unions, sworn in front of whoever has the power to sign off on them, shall carry the same weight as a marriage license"

And there is more references if you read above that say they should carry the same entry and exit requirements as any marriage.

So, no, not an entry and exit as you please environment.

As to your other point:

Cool thing about how we operate. No one holds the reigns for too long.

Checks and balances.

I will agree however that it is getting harder to keep up who voted for what bill to pass when and so forth. And what is in each prop/bill. There are just too many changes at the last minute that don't make it to where we can read them before they go to the House floor and then there are even more revisions added at the last minute before the Senate votes. It is really a challenge to keep up. Truthfully on most issues I do not weigh in.

I probably would have let this pass without a comment except that I knew the original poster was not even a citizen of this country and to be completely honest that fact pissed me off. What weight does a non citizen of this country have on issues within our borders. I did not start a thread with "Hey Greece pull your head out of your a## before you kill one of the major industries that support your country because people want to go an vacation and relax there and you are handling your internal issues like baboons." I simply let it pass because that is not my country and I have no say in what happens there. However the gay marriage discussion is happening in my country and I do have a say in how it turns out. Why don't the gay couples go to Canada to get married? The Canadians come here to receive health care that they do not have to wait years on, don't they? Can same sex couples go to Canada or Mexico to have their ceremonies performed?

I know in my logical thought process that I should let this thread go since I have, I feel, pretty clearly stated my position and why I support it, but it is hard to watch the peanut gallery step on what I so strongly believe in. Not the gay marriage issue, but the idea of a free nation where we can debate and reason our way through solutions within our own borders to maintain the dignity of things like religion and marriage, but accept things that are outside of those traditions as different, but also acceptable.

So where ever you are from uldust and Popcom you being in Canada, work on and worry about what needs attention in your country. I am not going to presume to tell you how it is supposed to be there or what you should or should not allow there and I would appreciate if you would do the same.

LOL hmm so I guess I better try and get as many "sugar" trips in as possible before he finds out and then hide for a while...

Oddly enough I am good with that. ;)

I gave him bushels and named a country in his honor... What else does the guy need??

And thank you by the way for the shoe tying assistance. I had never seen that particular type of knot before.

I have to disagree with your comment Twain about ripping on a religion and ripping on a group of people being a different thing. If I said Catholics are child molesters, that would include you, If I said Priest XyXyXy was a child molester that would be attacking/ identifying a person. If I said gays should commit suicide that would be wrong as I do not know all gays, but If I said John gay Catholic priest who molested Billy should commit suicide then that would be identifying a person. If I said Gays should all be fashion coordinators or that Catholics should all be from Rome that is still applying an unfair bias to a group of people. I would not do this and it should be looked down upon equally by everyone.

But back to the topic:

Other than that Twain you are right on the money. If two people sign a contract they should honor it and so should their respective government. So let's as Americans make our elected officials do what we tell them and pass laws to this effect.

Fortunately for me I can say this as an American and not worry about being beheaded or otherwise killed as in some other nations around the globe. This issue is being worked through in this country by the people of this country, as it should be.

Thanks for your most sincere interest Popcom for how we handle our affairs, but dude really Go fluff yourself. Do you really have so little control over your own government and what happens in your own country that you have to look around at other countries, where people can actually be heard and bring about change without rioting and burning things, and try to tell them what they should do?

Try being gay in Iran, or other than Muslim for that matter, or try changing government policy in Greece.

Things are not perfect here, but they are better than anywhere else on the globe. We can openly discuss our ideas and beliefs, organize peacefully, be protected nearly 100% equally by our police (cops are human and subject to human flaws and feelings) and even act like complete fools and not worry about being executed for it. We cannot be stopped in mass on the highway because the police feel like it and are presumed innocent until found guilty.

Gay, straight, white, asian, black, or purple polka dotted it does not change your rights.

Civil unions should be recognized and available for any one who wants to be a party to one. Marriage is a religious term that identifies the union between a woman and a man.

Change the state issued marriage certificate to say "Marriage Certificate / Civil Union Certificate " if you please, but there is no physical way for a man to marry a man or a woman to marry a woman. The definition does not fit.

There is just no two ways to see this.

*looks around*

Is someone talking to me?

*returns to being another brick in the wall*

but she is still very handy with the cuffs

and a little too quick to apply the blind fold IMO

and really what is the deal with the body cavity search every time I come visit? I mean hey I like searching your body cavity, but when I come over for 2 minutes to borrow a cup of sugar I am just looking to get in and get out, if you know what I mean...

and if kemo finds out it could end up costing extra...

Please do not become a troll ponderer and try to tell me what I am or am not!!

That is like trying to tell someone who is gay or straight that they are the opposite. Please do not take this thread in that direction.

"I harbor pretty conservative views and would still support any legislation on a federal level that would identify civil unions as having the same legal rights as a marriage."

This is, I assume, what you are referring to. Please read it again.

It does not say anything about what the government should or should not allow. I simply said Civil Unions should carry the same weight, legally, as a marriage.

Marriage is a religious institution, recognized by state and federal law. Let Civil union be be an institution, recognized by state and federal law.

And let ponderer not try to incite anger by trying to tell people what they have to say or do to be a true anything! Very not cool man.

ponderer if the laws were federal it would relieve this stress from your situation. Federal level politicians need to represent their constituents and take care of this. I harbor pretty conservative views and would still support any legislation on a federal level that would identify civil unions as having the same legal rights as a marriage.

Mad Mortica sorry to hear about what happened to the gays in your high school. Hate is hate no matter what banner you fly it under.

Exactly why the laws need to reflect that "Civil Unions" carry the same legal rights and privileges as "Marriage". Problem solved without walking on peoples belief system.

So instead of forcing religions to accept what they do not view as correct make civil unions carry the same weight as marriage. Much easier to do and is not so in your face and oppressive to the religious people of this country.

Pop you are looking at this from a different perspective, I am guessing, so please don't be offended if I am wrong, but I would gather from your posts that you do not follow a faith, but do, at least occasionally watch the news. So you see the side of the gay rights protesters in the street or in front of the camera trying to force their beliefs into someone elses way of life, and do not sit in church or read the pages of your faiths text to understand why this is so wrong to some people. So you have no strong ideation as to why it is so bad to be gay or whatever or why the term "marriage" means so much. Some people do feel that being gay is bad and feel it very deeply, but that is not what this argument is about for most of us that do not support gay marriage.

I personally feel that if this country is going to remain free and truly represent the role model that other countries strive to become as it has in the past, that it needs to leave marriage, faith, gun rights, and free speech alone. Pass laws to identify that civil unions, sworn in front of whoever has the power to sign off on them, shall carry the same weight as a marriage license. Allows gays or straight couples for that matter, to decide what kind of union they want to enter, for what should be the rest of their lives, and then do just that. That way they are not trying to force someone to accept something they do not want to accept and same sex couples are not denied any "perks" of having a piece of paper to remind them that they are joined contractually and not just by choice anymore.

SAY NO TO GAY MARRIAGE !!

It is not about equal rights for same sex couples. There are other better ways to equal the benefits for same sex couples. It is simply an attack on faith based institutions such as marriage.

You are right about people fighting to the death and taking lives in support of their faiths. Religion or faith is oppressive in the fact that it sets down a guideline for how you should live your life. I have not studied any religions, none, but it seems that some, if not most, speak directly against same sex couples. (From my limited view of what most religious people around me have to say.)

And yes I believe MedicineMan2 was referring to what happens after we part from this life.

You are correct dantzig. There is no reason to fluff. Each country gets enough turns per day to kill any other country. Don't whine here. Just kill the offending country in the most efficient manner and be done with it.

Had to edit to say one last thing:

2 hits on you in a 24hr period is not (IMO) justification to kill someone. 10 however is more than enough!

It sucks to get grabbed more than once, but to go ruin your chances at a top finish and the set of someone else over a double tap is (IMO) over reacting. Hit some one more than twice however and, well, take what comes back and learn from it.

To "suicide" however means that the attacking country died after executing their retaliation. I do not think this term applies here and is widely over used. (Pet peeve) What you really mean to say is that someone ruined your chances at a top finish for the set and also took themselves out of contention at the same time. Unless you were able to come back and kill their country for the offense?

Sorry to hear that someone felt the need to ruin your set over one grab. That is an over reaction.

We need to come up with a better term than "suiciding"

Suggestions???

I haven't played Express much, it takes a bit more time than I could give lately, but am curious about some things.

How many countries get killed each set in Express?

Do people often attempt to destroy the country that is 3 or 4 ranks higher than them in the last 5 or 10 minutes to raise their own rank?

I know each country has enough turns to be able to kill another country with no assistance so why do any overzealous grabbers ever survive to the end of a set?

The last set I played was over a month ago, and I killed the one country that hit me 5 or 6 times in a row, the very next time I logged in. If everyone defended themselves this way I think less people would get so carried away with their grabbing.

So make over grabbing the definition of "suiciding" and it would go down. (IMO) Chastising them on the boards just makes them infamous and probably makes them grab more.

Also 2 grabs in 24 hrs on one country is not over attacking. More than 2 on one country and you deserve whatever they do to you.

Lets get rid of some of the Republics while we are at it. Food should be at or over 40 per bushel right now, with all those commies and tyranny techers there is no reason for people to be selling food for 36. This is an odd set for sure.

You are exactly right Bsnake. Marriage is a religious term for when a man and woman join together to share a life and blah blah blah....

So why is it that gays want so badly to identify themselves with those roles? I mean really; is acceptance not allowing others to do their own thing and you doing your own thing? Why is it such a big deal for gays to force themselves into the married realm. Go to a justice of the peace, sign a civil union agreement, put on wedding rings, no one will ask why, and just do your own thing. Don't force your ideas under the same umbrella as mine. I won't try and force gays to be straight. I won't paint stripes on a horse and make you call it a zebra. Don't be a gay couple and try to make me call you a "wife and wife" or "man and man", it is different and that is fine. Don't try to make me accept it as normal when it is outside of the norm. No malice, but if you have gay pride be proud of doing your own thing and leave others to do their own thing.

IMO divorce is so common now because we live in a "ME. NOW society". What makes "me" happy "right now". People marry during the "lust period" of their relationship and start looking somewhere else once the lust becomes the norm and is not exciting anymore. We are just selfish, self-serving bastards.

Say no to being bullied by political correctness into feeling like you can't speak your mind. Like, dislike, for or against you should feel like you can say what you think.

I could go on, but I won't. I will just wrap up by saying that if we met on the street and you didn't tell me you were gay and I didn't tell you I was straight would it make a snow flakes difference in Hell? I think not. At the end of the day, when you lay your head on your pillow, is it what someone else thinks of you that keeps you up, or what you think of yourself?

Hmmmm. Now that is just crazy talk.

Where do you come up with such crazy things????

Oh Hell Yeah!!

This could prove to be a very fun set after all.

Dons police hat and night stick......

Yuck did you just make a referance to earning his redwings?

That is just gross.

Good on ya Twizzle for resetting your spam counter.

^^ sounds about right

Leave it to kemo jk/lol

and it was cajun sauce

Also not new.. LOL

Way to try and grow the game AoDT..

Uber funny!!

ROFLMAO

Went along with the breakfast thread. Where Gambit or I messaged you and said " not killing you just saying hi or some such nonsense."

If you really want to then sure.

Whip it out.

LOL

*damn I am never gonna catch this guy in post count*

Okay fine !!

but you are absolutely wrong

and you being obtuse got to me about 22 June that is why I have not let this die like it should have days ago

how funny is it to you now mate?

I gave you the last one you asked for "Kemos Bush"

You are a demanding cus aren't you !

No redheaded anything for you.... You have been cutoff !!

lol :)

Not getting to restart very much lately. Took me days to finally be able to make the country kemo asked for.

That is some crappy news Havoc. Sorry it had to happen to you like that.

LMAO

Not sure which is more fun playing the game or the banter on the forums.

LOL