We don't have the ability to detag people. Only admins can do that.

You're missing an important point about our ongoing argument: In Colo's case, Tag C grabbed Tag B, and Tag A wants to retal. No one is saying Tag A or Tag B can't defend themselves against Tag C, it's the concept that Tag A now OWNS Tag B and nobody else can touch them without somehow owing Tag A something...

Speaking as a netter, you're not asking them to stop playing chess; you're forcing them to..

Phrase it however you want to, you don't get to retal on your enemy's behalf.

Protecting yourselves is absolutely OK. It's the other part that is not ok.

http://earthempires.com/...-and-warring-37279#677527

Um, that's where you said it wasn't. You're telling us not to change anything...

And we shouldn't have to babysit the tards. That's the whole reason I'm pushing for your feedback in order to clarify the rules. People keep claiming they don't understand them(and it was Archaic's post to this effect, not Celphi's, that pushed me to act), and then fluff when they get deleted.

And again, if people are violating the rules, report them and message us. Almost every single time someone has messaged me, I look into it and make a judgement. I don't always agree with the reporter, but I almost always look.



You are free to fluff them up in conjunction with other tags as long as they're untagged. If they're joining in on a war, then report them and send me or bstrong(or both) a message and we'll delete them. I've already deleted Celphi twice this set for doing this...

Which recent retardation? Which violation did we miss?

The problem is that some people don't understand the rules. I'm trying to clarify them. How is that not a good thing for you?

Ok.

I'd like to get this detail hammered out, because it seems like the biggest gray area and the other threads are getting polluted.

What I want to hear from you guys is what your stance is on landgrabbing during a war.

-Tag A and Tag B are at war.
1) Is Tag C allowed to LG either side 'at all'
2) If so, should there be a limit? How many hits per tag? Per country? Per day?
3) What is an appropriate response for Tag A and B if Tag C grabs Tag A?

-Also, I am absolutely not OK with trying to bait tags into giving them an excuse to war. ie Tag C grabs Tag A 3 times, Tag C retals 3 times, Tag A says 'That's overretalling!' and goes to war. Any suggestions for how to solve this?


Again, my goal here is to remove any and all gray areas(if possible) so we can all have the same understanding that 5v5 MEANS 5v5. Trust me, I don't want to spend my time sorting out who was right and who was wrong. I'd much rather people just follow the rules and we can all move on.

Please keep this thread civil. Unlike the previous threads, I'm planning to delete posts that aren't contributing or are off-topic. Thank you.

So...did you want to actually contribute to the main thrust of the discussion and offer some suggestions?

If people cheat, then sometimes the admins restore stuff. I can't think of the last time anyone was restored, though...

The admins position on suiciding has been 'yeah it sucks, but some people like to play that way, and it would be ridiculously hard to enforce'.

Colo, again, you are essentially agreeing with me and the other mods' position. If you think that country should have been deleted for 'interfering' in your war, it would only be because they were helping your side and making it a 6v5, not because they 'stole your land'.

Thank you for your contribution.

I like how you only read part of my post.

What you guys did wasn't wrong in my book, except for the Demos. But people may feel differently, so I'm trying to form some consensus about how landgrabbing relates to war. Everyone landgrabs, netter or warrer alike, so not sure how that's a 'netter only' thing..

I agree. People can't seem to understand the concept, however, so now we have rules..

I'm not the game owner.

I have told Celphi off more times than I have helped him.

I am asking you guys, the players, for ideas. It's not my or Celphi's fault if he's almost the only one even posting ideas.

Why the fluff are you fluffing about something that didn't even happen? Were you deleted and/or punished? Nope, now stop whining.

Honestly, I don't think what your boy did was wrong, except for the demos. What I find unacceptable is your justification, and I don't want that justification used in the future.

So...you gonna keep whining or present legitimate suggestions?

It does seem unsustainable when one type of player's enjoyment can completely destroy another's :/

I'd rather they didn't slug it out...I'm pretty sure I'm in range :/

Politics out, rules discussion in please.

Pretty sure ford is bigger than that ;)

Suiciders are entitled to play how they want to, unfortunately. If they tag up, they have rights, just like you do. If they stay untagged, they forfeit those rights on this server.

Welp, hop on the clown car then.

PS: Ladybugs are terrifying.

That's why I continue to ask for real suggestions. If you have a better idea, please offer it.

Agreed. That was the reasoning behind treating 1-man tags as legit teams, and not providing protection for untags.

Should we set a specific limit? 2 LGs per country? Per tag? 2 in 24 hours?

If one country LGs a tag at war twice a day, every day, that's war worthy, imo. 2 grabs one time isn't much.

Why would we treat them as an individual tag? This is a team server, not meant for solo players. People choosing not to tagup makes no sense in the scope of this server, so we will not treat them the same as the players who do tag up.

Squeeky wheel gets the attention, not always the grease. If nobody reports something, how are we going to know about it unless we analyze every single war attack on a daily basis? That's a waste of time.

And again, just because someone reports something doesn't mean action is taken. There are many many times where people believe there is a violation and we disagree.


Tagups, I absolutely agree, but that's for qz to deal with. Above my paygrade, sadly :/

Precedent. That's what this is about. I want the rules to be clear, just like you do.

It's better for us to wait for someone to complain about it. Some people are ok with multi-front wars. If nobody thinks it's a violation of the rules and they're ok with what happened, then that's ok with me. It's when people DON'T want that interference that we should step in.

Protect your war interests? Be righteously indignant all you want, it won't help you.

Anyway, move along now and let the adults talk.

Anyone else on thoughts about my suggestion for demo?

Any thoughts about placing a limit on LGs in wartime?

Well, sorry to burst your fluffing bubble, but you don't. You do not have the right to interfere in someone ELSE'S war because they attacked your enemy. They did nothing to YOU. I wish I had been able to catch this bs and deleted your ass for it.

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot the part where I exist to serve your entitled ass.

Do you realize how ridiculous your justification is? You were at war with someone. Someone else grabbed THEM, NOT YOU. So you think you get free retals on them? And wtf does that have to do with policing? NOBODY HIT YOU. Policing has to do with covering YOUR back, not your enemy's...

Not once they get past about 1k acres, you can't.

In any case, someone grabbing YOUR ENEMY during war doesn't mean they are declaring war on YOU. Claiming that you are justified in taking retals on someone in that case is fluffing nuts. If anything, they were HELPING YOU.

Despite what you think, even if I don't check on a daily basis, I DO read my PMs and take action when necessary. There were about 2-3 sets where I got NO messages, and didn't see anything worthy of taking action on in the mod tools. Just because we don't post here doesn't mean we're not active. The problem is when you guys sit here on the forums and fluff about people abusing the rules, but never report or message. So, for the most part, we/I HAVE been enforcing the rules when people actually bring it to our/my attention.

Can we get back on topic please? I don't give a fluff about your interpersonal drama.

As for demos, if it's used to landgrab someone, I don't personally think that should be considered a 'war attack'. If someone is just sending demos at another tag that is at war, that's definitely deletable, because it does impact their war performance.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Demos should be allowed for grabbing, but not if the target is in a war, because that interferes with their warring ability. Any thoughts?

Landgrabs aren't war hits.

Ummm....what? Did you look at what #19 did?

Also, you just reported it like 5-6 hours ago. Stop your fluffing.

That's one option. Another option is to get rid of Team altogether. We don't want/need another alliance server. If you want the true wild west, you can play in primary or express.

Not saying it's a completely terrible idea, but the entire reason this whole fluffstorm started was because a LOT of people did not like how things were. There were tons of people leaving the server then, just as there are now. That's not really a net-positive no matter how you look at it :/

If someone is straight up running multis and fluff, yes, that's cheating. And yes, we will and do catch them. But that's not what we're talking about here at all.

Moderator/Behavior rules should be clear enough that we don't have to enforce them, because people will follow them and think twice before breaking them. Then, and only then, should we step in. That's what we want, that's what you want. So stop fluffing about moderator activity and give me suggestions.

Yeah, not gonna happen.

Here are the two things I want suggestions on:

1) LGing someone at war. How would you like that handled? As it stands, it's a case by case basis, with no hard limits set. Policing is allowed, though, so that's a way to enforce it without mods.

2) Is Demo considered a 'harmful spyop'?

Bit of a Catch-22. Whenever I AM active with the modding, people fluff about abuse and cry about how I'm biased. What i'd like to do is get some legit input from you guys so we can avoid the need for me to do anything. If I am forced to take action, then the system has failed...

Ok, I've caught up on this thread.

Celphi, I didn't make the new rules. They were created just before I became a mod for Team. The initial implementation was very vague and was a headache for everyone. I was faced with a choice: Either try to figure something out that would work for most people, or shut the server down. Guess which one I chose?

Anyway, I don't give a fluff about what you guys want to attack each other over. I want suggestions that I can take back to the mod board/admins. I'm hearing a lot of complaining, but not a lot of concrete ideas on how to change things for the better. So I'll say it straight up: What do you want changed?

The only gray area I can easily spot is Landgrabs against warring teams. What else is there? I guess Demo as well, since that's sort of a 'war' spy op typically.

I live in Yokohama. Let's go to Tokyo Disney Sea!

This makes no sense to me. So A gets free retals on C because they were at war with B? If anything, C is doing A a favor and weakening B. I don't understand the logic behind this.



End of set violations are hard for mods to enforce without admin support. But I agree, I'd like to punish people for doing this.



Agreed, but this is for qz, and has little to do with rules/moderation.



This has already been made abundantly clear. Please reread my spirit of the rules thread.

HELLO

2 per country? 2 per team?

Country A in Tag A can grab Tag B twice. Per day? Or each country in Tag B twice? Per day?

Celphi, as you yourself have found out, sending messages and making sure to report increase the chances of something being dealt with. I'm sorry if it wasn't taken care of satisfactorily, but that's definitely why we need more mods.

Grabbing is not considered an act of war. This is definitely a gray area, though, since a few grabs aren't a huge deal, but a ton of grabs is not ok. We generally don't like to set a hard limit, because some people take that as a sign to go up to that limit every single time just to push it. What do you think we should do?

Although I'm not sure why Tag A grabbing Tag C would be even remotely a violation...

Celphi, personally I consider Demos out of bounds and more or less a war activity. I'd say it's not ok, but that may just be my alliance roots showing.