I recieved this:

"pls expect a retal as your 'retal' is late and is considered a grab. check your news to confirm. its way past 72 hours.

i'll be taking the retal 12 hours from now. if there are any disputes pls msg me before then. thanks."

A really polite message indeed, but why do people fail to realize this is not 1A?

I don't let people go away with my land, and i don't retal or expect to be retaled within any time frame here on Primary. GDI makes it really easy to understand it: you RoR, you better be prepared for what's coming next.

Agree, disagree?

Reply that you don't follow 1a Retal rules made by clan leaders there and only follow 1b gdi Retal rules as designed by the game admins.

Obviously did it already Serp, but amuses me the tone of his msg: what does he think, that he can bring his 1a clanmates in here to enforce his idea or retal window?

Ops...i am bad at editing grammar errors....

He can enforce it himself. If you hit back a second time or do ABs and nukes he can do them right back at you. Yeah you get first strike but you'll go down with him. The 72 hour rule seems a little too strict to me but there are numerous people who will try to stand by it, so you should keep that in mind when you retal.

Well Karim you may have just found a party. Lol

I'm not sure why you took more than a day to make the retal, it doesn't look like it was a particularly hard retal to make. Not that I think you took "too long," but if it's not too much trouble, it's just smart to get the hit made in under 72 hours. If it is too much trouble, then fluff it, take 100 hours or 200 hours or whatever you feel like, but there do exist people who will treat it as a grab, and you might find yourself in a war. Because this topic has come up many times.

meh. If he wants to waste his set enforcing a retal rule that no one else knows about then so be it.

An FS is a pretty powerful tool. If he RoRs you then destroy his set.

It's not really completely unknown. People fight over it a lot. Bobby had a big war a few sets back. Gogy got in multiple wars a few sets back. Etc.

Bobby?!

Blid i didn't retal immediately because i wouldn't have gained what i lost: that guy is attacking and waiting for retals to come, leaving him on the winning side.

I waited for him to grow bigger then retaled for more than i lost: i am playing my game, not his.

I felt behind since i lost 4 days of playing, and in this position a war is not going to really ruin my set: we'll see who's more prepared (prolly him) and who's going to play it better.

doesn't matter who's more prepared. let him hit you today. he's a demo and probably half empty acres(look at his attack history) and you're a CI who's presumeably fully built.

run 100% spies and catch his jets at home tomorrow. spend your day bombing his air bases and structures, lob your missiles and defuse his.

in two days when is NW is half what it is now cause he has no jets and his DR falls off he will be farm bait for the top 40 and you will be back to netting.

It's the whole point of GDI. Anyone netting can be trolled, but the trollee gets to have the FS.

That was the plan, more or less: i even have full turns plus stored so it would be a decent FS :)

Ah, I didn't realize you had more land than him when he hit you. Screw 'em then.

LATC!?

I no longer have a 72 hour retal window as generally defined. Currently, if you retal under 72 hours I won't hit you the rest of the set. If you hit past 72 hours, I will do anything from nothing to going berserk on your country based on your country, my country and my mood.

A few sets ago I went to war over a late retal. The set after I let a hit slide mainly b/c the country that hit me wasn't very good (LATC I think it was you, and it wasn't very good not even finishing t20 I don't think). Funny, b/c me saying the country wasn't very good helped inspire him to win the next set (at least I tell myself that heh)

also,

2013-07-27 12:38:31 PS Commies get fat and win (#179) Thai seafood salad (#95) 1080A (1645A)
2013-07-27 12:34:06 PS Thai seafood salad (#95) Commies get fat and win (#179) 2682A (3817A)

Jeez, that person wanted to be sure to get in under a retal window lol. OK i'll stop talking to myself now.

Heh I was trying a month long techer -> fascist farmer strat.. awful idea, esp cuz food never went past $45. But the weird thing is, I warred two guys that set and STILL finished rank 30 (2nd highest fascist) w/ $55m NW! Not sure how ppl can try so hard and not make top 30..

lol LATC, we should thank the folks that are little farm buddies so we can compete for the #1 spot. If everyone played at your lvl, everyone would be mass explorers :)

That guy even made it in my 7.2 minute retal window.

Karim I agree with you. If buddy wants to enforce a retal window then let him, but then you can enforce your AB and missiles policy and since neither was agreed upon by both parties beforehand there can be no complaining.

Well, I plainly told LATC last few days of the reset that if he didn't finish above 140m, he was doing something wrong - since he had told me he didn't think he would finish above 130m. It probably made him rethink about his destock strategies, and I left a few pointers.

I would say last set was somewhat experimental, people were not sure how effective the -building cost bonus was, and LATC/Rob were the only 2 people to try it, to great success.

I think in primary it's up to the individual and how far they are prepared to go for whatever the situation is. 48-72 hrs has always been the common window throughout the clan based servers since earth has been around. I probably wouldn't retal after 72 hrs, but thats also based on the situation, my mood and how many beers I've had. :)

I tried it to fine success until someone deliberately decided to end my set.

People who make their own retal policies and try to enforce it on others who do not share in that specific policy (and is nowhere mandated in the server by the admins) is like someone shoving their own religion on other people's throats. Inevitable those against it will spit it back out and it's going to become ugly.

Would it be interesting if GDI was tweaked and makes a country that was RoR'd (country A) be able to attack again without breaking GDI? So basically country A can retal the RoR without risking war yet. So then country A has the option of going apefluff on country B after the RoR or he can grab him again without having to suffer ABs and missiles.

This may deter players who deliberately RoR on others thinking that others don' want to go to war and will look the other way so he gets a free grab.

I've been RoR'd before but didn't retal the RoR since I wanted to finish the set netting (not that I'm good - yet) so that fluff got away with extra land.

But then again you guys will probably tell me to grow a pair and just give the other guy what he deserves. :)

You forget, this is not alliance. A "Retal" is the invention of the players in alliance. You are not entitled to a Retal here. GDI however will allow you to hit each country once each without leaving yourself open to war. So you can get away with hitting eachother once each. If he hits you twice, you gotta make the call on taking him down first, doing nothing, or risking negating your own gdi by hitting again.

Yeah when I think about it nothing is wrong with the system. If players here constantly bicker on the nature of their conflicting retal policies, they're better off playing on alliance. This is the wild west where anything goes.

It is how the game was developed: on alliance they decided to enforce the retal rules, since it's quicker and easier to punish someone breaking it, but it's a bunch of players addon to the game mechanics.

On primary it's a bit more difficult to grab and play in general, since coordinated play is strictly forbidden and can actually get you banned: grabbing the early days might take you to major losses later on, when the tiny country you grabbed for 200 acres the 4th day, evolves into a force of nature able to retal you for 4k acres.

You have to keep growing, picking your targets carefully, watching not to grab anyone twice (or do it at your own risk), and trying to always pick tagrts you think won't be able to retal later.

If they do retal a month later, there is no alliance to cover you, it's simply a decision: ror him or not? If you RoR you better have a perfectly shaped country, able to eat missiles, spy ops, AB runs and stuff, and generally you also waste your set, since rarely 1v1 wars end with a kill, therefor they last the whole set, negating each other's ability to still grow.

This is why i generally never RoR: my country usually is net oriented and if someone i grabbed is able to retal me at any point of the set, it's my mystake, cause i didn't use their land at my advantage to outgrow them enough.

On primary the retal window is all set long, live with it or never net :)

A large techer just got ABed for a double tap, 6k buildings!

http://www.eestats.com/primary/country/84

Edit: Some calculations show 6k buildings will cost 640m dollars to rebuild, not including the turns lost due to not teching. If this takes 80 turns with say 75 BPT (I'm not sure what his BPT will be after the ABs), that is an additional potential loss of 1.22b dollars more, if I use an estimated 7300 TPT and $2100 as the tech price.

Ow!

And Valinor simply made a mistake probably looking at his history.

Wow that guy is continuing to AB Valinor once per hour as the turns tick in...

Lol!!

Looks like not only a mistake double tap, but also probably had 0 tanks.

Yup! never noticed i already hit Ragnarok. Lesson learned: never play when drunk. Wasted an entire set.

Imagine how I feel. never noticed i hit ragnarok twice :(

I didnt get any tanks since i had no plans at all to double tap. *sigh*

Yeah, that was me... guess it was a bit harsh. It was late and I was in a foul mood. When I saw it was the second hit and you had no tanks I figured what the hell, not like I'm gonna place well anyways so might as well have some revenge.

Then the returns were so good that I didn't want to stop. Figured I could do as much damage as possible before you logged in just in case you went nuts right back at me. Thus the newbish hourly hits. Already blew the element of surprise by hitting without full turns so had to get in as many as possible.

72hours makes more sense to me than doing a retal on an attack that happened one month ago.

It is too easy to do a successful retal in an 'unlimited' window.
It is not about 'enforcing' a specific window, but it's about realizing what would piss someone off and what wouldn't.

If people know they topfed, they know a retal is coming.
On the other hand, if you grab a guy with 2M NW and one month from then he happens to grab you, that is just not going to be let go of.

So it's not about 'enforcement' it's about not pissing eachother off.

my 2cents anyways :)

emanny - that's a position some people take.

but by taking that position you open yourself up to an FS. It's the nature of GDI. So if you are wanting to do that you need to make sure you have SDI and tanks. Cause if you RoR someone a month and a half into the set they're gonna have 10 missiles and will easily be able to ruin your netting set.

What is FS?

Anyways, by not having a retal window benefits lower-end players. I am not sure why you would want to be part of that group.

Top players do not, and should not wait to retal when it benefits them "way more", because that will exponentially piss off their target more. It will end up in both players getting their set ruined.

If I get grabbed for 1K acres, then wait until my target has 50,000 Acres to retal, and get 6K, that's not called a retal anymore...

If you think that's OK... that's fine. But I suspect 99% of the time it wont be seen as a retal anymore...

FS: First Strike

^This. QFT. Entirely.

Well said, Karim

If you're really serious about netting then being grabbed for 6k acres in a month old retal already ruined your set, so why hold back?

emanny- I'm not advocating people retalling me a month later. But you need to understand that a netgainer is likely going to lose their ability to competitively netgain when they hit someone a second time.

GDI works such that as long as you have hit someone less then twice all you can do is SS/PS/Non harmful ops+Tech steal

------------------------

though not a perfect example, I'm happy to brag:

Someone topfed/midfed me this set. I retalled him 6 hours later. He then retalled my retal the next day. At this point I was 8.3m NW and 22k acres, he was 8.2m NW and 21k acres. We were both logged out t10. Within 24 hours I had PS'd him again, destroyed half his jets, all his missiles and destroyed 4k buildings. His reset/ability to war was ruined because I got the first strike.

If you are ready to give someone that advantage because you couldn't keep pace with someone you had a 4x NW advantage on at some point then do so. But don't expect to netgain very much.

I take it Catchy and akira made up and are friends now? lol, didn't see anymore attacks since. Or has warfare gone underground?

haha we kissed and made up. wait, that sounded so wrong.

After many sickly apologetic ingame messages between us, Akira has agreed to send an aid package containing all the acres he took in his heinous attacks on my crap country.

Tell me that isn't the best outcome ever!

<--- not that big of a newbie, this is a joke.

I'm not sure how you can do that, since FA is disabled on all solo servers, including this one. Unless he means to let you tech leech.

Well I thought it would be pretty obvious that he can't do that since land isn't really on the menu for FA no matter what :P

Come on Xin, it says "this is a joke" right in his post!