20:05 01/31/13 AB Once More Unto the Breach (#1140) (SoF) Snupi Wargasms on Bree (#192) (SoF) 41069 B

At the time, #192 had 34,764 acres, 0 tanks, and that was the very first AB done.

To go a little further, the second hit was

20:05 01/31/13 AB Once More Unto the Breach (#1140) (SoF) Snupi Wargasms on Bree (#192) (SoF) 1 B

Then the next day, I AB him a couple more times, again him still having 0 tanks, and the same pattern, where all his buildings (presumably CS) are knocked out on the first hit, with nothing left afterwards.

12:50 02/01/13 AB Once More Unto the Breach (#1140) (SoF) Snupi Wargasms on Bree (#192) (SoF) 87 B

12:50 02/01/13 AB Once More Unto the Breach (#1140) (SoF) Snupi Wargasms on Bree (#192) (SoF) 1 B

I know the formula has been tweaked a bit lately, but that seems a bit much. Especially the 41k building AB on a 35k acre country =)

I wish qzjul would just tell us the formula so we can outright say if it is broken or not instead of keeping it under wraps.


I've always maintained that AB and GS attacks on 0 tank/troop countries do too much damage and should be nerfed or reverted.

where did the other 6k buildings come from?

I think it's broken if it lets someone kill so many buildings in one AB.

Smaller example but look at this from Express tihs set. This victim only had 7k land total. Loses 1200 buildings in the first AB. I definitely don't think this was the intention of the formula.

2013-02-01 20:14:08 AB John Birch (#2) The Carnival of Carnage (#79) 678B
2013-02-01 20:14:07 AB John Birch (#2) The Carnival of Carnage (#79) 904B
2013-02-01 20:14:05 AB John Birch (#2) The Carnival of Carnage (#79) 1222B

Did 79 has 0 tanks?

Many sets ago in express, I ABed 10-12 guys to about 0-5 CSes that had 0 tanks. It increases really fast but not like the one in 1a posted above.

Reference:
http://www.eestats.com/express/oldcountry/397/1

http://earthgraphs.com/...&last_h=72&page=1

Its at the very bottom.... If I do any more attacks you may have to flip to the next page though.

that was me, blid. i was an idiot for trying to gs kill, also had zero troops. should have ab'd and saved the turns, it was the same effect with a waste of a hundred+ turns

in the first ab i took out, i believe, every single one of his CSs

that wasn't you, i really hope blid?

no it was not heh

If you have no tanks or troops it makes perfect sense for me to really put the boots to you I think.

There is no singluar formula that's postable anyway =/


There's some mitigation that's been in the queue of things for me to work on, again I only just finished the back-end changes, so all these little things are being addressed.

(yes I realize 40k buildings is not little, but the 0 tanks case is kindof a corner case that we never *really* considered)

Given that 0 tanks is the default...

So, abing someone with 0 tanks was never tested?

sure it was

but never after people had been extensively hit in the previous 24h, and not on 50kA countries

Appreciate the response =)

Just wanted to make sure that you realize that the guy had more buildings destroyed than he had acres total.

wait what? more buildings destroyed than acres total?

hrmnmn

I'll look at the math later, but even with the special attack modifier that shouldn't be possible

I think?

Show us the math and we'll tell you if it is possible!

fine -- all $variables are positive real numbers

%Lost = 

MIN(					
	MAX(
		MAX(
			MIN(
				POP * ((NUMATTACKS+$frontcut)/$divisor) * ((POP + $addtop)/(TROOPS + $addbottom))^$forcesexp
			)
			10
		)
		0
	)			
	POP
)

(no this is not actual code, though it is a code comment heh)

I should point out that that %Lost is modifying the formerly fixed %Lost, which itself is modified by nw/nw and stuff like that

Well, I don't know what $frontcut, $divisor, $addtop and $addbottom and $forcesexp represent.

Your series of MIN and MAX doesn't make sense. The innermost pair of MAX and MIN clamps the value between 0-10? And the outermost between 0 and POP? Or the innermost MIN() doesn't have a second argument?

we did a AB hit last set on SOL that was like WTF.

i think we destroyed 1/3 of the countries buildings.

ill try to find the hit

[10:16] <Nekrataal> <ZscriptBot> GS ontwikkelingsplanologie (#1307) [SOLdier] --> Fresh Corpse (#1410) [RIVAL] -- 88C
[10:16] <Nekrataal> <ZscriptBot> GS ontwikkelingsplanologie (#1307) [SOLdier] --> Fresh Corpse (#1410) [RIVAL] -- 88C
[10:16] <Nekrataal> <ZscriptBot> AB Nekrataal (#1426) [RIVAL] --> one more time plz Brande (#1454) [SOLdier] -- 823B
[10:16] <Nekrataal> <ZscriptBot> AB Nekrataal (#1426) [RIVAL] --> one more time plz Brande (#1454) [SOLdier] -- 508B
[10:16] <Nekrataal> <ZscriptBot> AB Nekrataal (#1426) [RIVAL] --> one more time plz Brande (#1454) [SOLdier] -- 360B
[10:16] <Nekrataal> <ZscriptBot> AB Nekrataal (#1426) [RIVAL] --> one more time plz Brande (#1454) [SOLdier] -- 275B
[10:16] <Nekrataal> <ZscriptBot> AB Nekrataal (#1426) [RIVAL] --> one more time plz Brande (#1454) [SOLdier] -- 216B
[10:16] <Nekrataal> <ZscriptBot> AB Nekrataal (#1426) [RIVAL] --> one more time plz Brande (#1454) [SOLdier] -- 178B


IN the few Ab that Nekrataal country made i think he took down over 1/3 of that SOL acres..

So what? Buy a tank and get over it.

my min/max things may not be 100% accurate, i may have to update the comment

that looks more like code for a GS, not an AB.

Maybe you substitute buildings and tanks for troops and population.

Seems like the min/maxes should be:

Min(Pop,Max(10,%Lost))

You can't kill less than 10, and you can't kill more than the Population.

First, GSes kill 5 pop minimum not 10, so already it doesn't make sense. Secondly, he has 2 MINs and 2 MAXs in there, you only have 1 of each.

ok, I'm off. I agree with you it doesn't make sense. I was just trying to figure out what he could have meant.

$percent_lost = max(0.1,(($specials_count+$frontcut)/$divisor)*pow(($target_buildings + $addtop)/($defending_unit*$multbottom + $addbottom),$exponent));


variables renamed to avoid lots of $object->properties stuff, but that's the gist; this is for the AB section, as buildings are handled separately

So, the formula says,

Take the "buildings:tank" ratio, raise it to the power of something, and multiply it by a number Q that increases slightly per special attack already made, and Q increases linearly with no limit at the rate of 1/$divisor. Then if the damage is less than 0.1, set it to 0.1.

So there is no maximum damage that can be done, only a minimum of 0.1.

-------------------------
Without knowing what $exponent is (whether it is larger or smaller than 1), the

pow(ratio,exponent)

where ratio is the adjusted building/tank ratio, can result in just about any number between 0 and infinity.

Let's look at 4 cases from the smallest result to the largest:
ratio < 1, exponent > 1: Result < ratio
ratio < 1, exponent < 1: Result < 1
ratio > 1, exponent < 1: ratio > result > 1
ratio > 1, exponent > 1: Result > ratio

In the extreme case of 0 tanks, you end up with this on the first AB:

max(0.1, [($frontcut)/$divisor] * pow(($target_buildings + $addtop)/$addbottom, $exponent))

If exponent is a large number, that is only going to amplify the very large adjusted building/tank ratio, and you end up with ridiculous returns.

And this stuff makes sense to the two of you?

exponents are currently 0.6; all other numbers are positive integers (or 0 depending on the unit)

All I'm going to say is that

$frontcut/$divisor * pow(ratio, 0.6)

can result in a very large number that isn't capped.

Feb 23/13 6:46:34 PM AB Your mom (#890) (MD75) eevess (#209) (SoF) 226 B
Feb 23/13 6:46:34 PM AB Your mom (#890) (MD75) eevess (#209) (SoF) 412 B
Feb 23/13 6:46:33 PM AB Your mom (#890) (MD75) eevess (#209) (SoF) 5799 B

The SoF country has 7,390 acres, and 1 AB killed 78% of that. You still don't think this is a problem?

(The 2nd and 3rd ABs killed 5.5% and 3%, for a total of 86.5%)

ouch!

Yeah, even us in MD are like WTF.... glad that happened on OUR side of the war... I dunno if you can restore his buildings, but that's just not right...

Why restore 1 guys buildings if all the rest weren't restored.

We stopped our run because of the that hit, it cannot be restored it noone elses was.

If it's a bug why wouldn't you fix anyone affected? Give me a break.

Well either do it to everyone or noone at all. Just don't selectively do it after never having done it for a month.

And btw: we didn't do it on purpose, we actually didn't even know about this.

Programmer error. Revert back to previous coding for killing ;)