starting out in an even war and then calling in an ally when it turns against you (not a reference to this set)

Your mom is a dirty trick

its a trick sol has been accustomed to. they are experts at claiming moral victory

running untags at the start of the set to AB/make the enemy kill you before the war starts

running untag at all.

Hack or spy on other alliances to ascertain FS times, strategies and other information. Oh wait!

Friendly wars/arranged wars rarely include cheats. The problem comes from one alliance either calling in an ally or being considered dirty by the tag they are warring with. imag aren't excluded from this, you annoy some netters to the point where you ruin their sets when you can go after others, why should they respect these honorable war rules that benefit the instigator (most likely more prepared, better positioned and with FS).

Tag kill should be achieved, if the other clan still wants to fight, you keep farming and killing. When you don't do the latter but use AB to make sure a country doesn't play for 3-4 days with 30 or so hits, then you can't complain when they decide to use the game mechanics. Obviously, you don't want to finish it, and doing so would help your target, but they don't want to sit by either. You can't accuse either of these being dirty because they are playing tactics, what should be avoided is breaking tag integrity by abusing already existing pacts, but there is nothing wrong with either crippling or starting over.

Don't create game mechanics if you want it not to be used, don't create rules you can't moderate, both kills and restart bonus are part of the game, if you want it moderated differently, please ask the admins, don't create your own borders for what is morally just when every tag out there does something considered dirty by others.

multiple countries....

and then an influx of additional "countries", after war-start is about the same thing.. i mean war is on, and yes this is a game, but ... as far me, when i invest time into a task, effort, goal, ect... working together for a victory... war-plan made, players playing, leaders leading... then some asshats come out with 10 additional countries would be a big one.. lol

and , if after that happened they still continued to get tea-bagged, well, thats just classic justice...

Good Luck in all the wars Alliance!!

GOOD LUCK, TIE!!!!!!!

You have it the wrong way around. ABing and BRing are a response to the restart bonuses. If the restart bonuses were not in place, you would see more kills and less crippling.

I'll add my vote to dropping land and letting your clan kill you. Dying should never be more beneficial.

Remaining untagged as a restart and jumping later is a bit dirty.

I don't think that having people come out of retirement to join your fight is dirty at all.

Now, if it's an even fight, detagging from another alliance for 72hrs and then joining that fight would be a little dirty, but rejoining the game for the sake of fighting with your alliance is okay in my book.

If its from BR's thats one thing. But to stop killing almost completely and just cripple and farm, you have to expect people to find a way around that. Thats called strategy.

LOL

This is where you are getting it wrong....refer to my previous post.

bonus

How exactly do I have it wrong?
http://earthgraphs.com/...port=Show&tab=details
4000ab's in the past week? To not expect someone to find a strategy to counteract the new tactic is just retarded. It may not be pretty, but its war, and if you can't adapt, gtfo.

very fair point, the only reason i see them as dirty is because I war, and dont net. From a netters point of view if its not dirty then so be it. I can understand that, its all about perspective.

As I pointed out earlier, your argument makes the assumption that LaF/SoF began the BRs and ABs to cripple SPERM so that they could farm them. That's NOT the case. The BR/ABs were done in response to the restart bonuses. The intent was never to cripple them and then subsequently to farm them.

LaF/SoF begun the ABs and BRs not because the intent is to farm the countries later.

The reasoning is really simple, we can use 500 turns to kill 1 country, who would just restart. We can also use the same 500 turns to cripple 3 countries.

Currently, the further into the reset, the more restart bonuses the restart gets. It has reached the point where crippling 30 countries is better than killing 10 countries, all of which would regrow to roughly the same size as before they were killed after 5 days, achieving little.

While ABing 30 countries also achieves little, it takes considerably less effort to perform offline ABs and not run warchats at all.

Yes, there are still some countries that are above average and would be better killed off (their restart would be worse off), but these are few enough that LaF/SoF can just run a warchat every few days for them.

To summarise, the AB/BRs are not done in response to self-suiciding. They are done because we believe that crippling is better than killing due to massive restart bonuses.

And even then the restart bonuses are massive enough that even restarting is better than playing a crippled country, so why would we kill 10 countries when we can cripple 30, where in many cases, both the killed or crippled country would just restart anyway? We would just have spent a lot less turns to achieve the same effect: causing the enemy to restart.

And because it has a circular effect (Crippling makes people want to restart, which makes crippling more effective than killing, which makes us cripple more, which makes more people want to restart, etc), I can certainly see why it would be easy to point fingers at each other.

I would like to note that as someone that has propagated the deliberate landkill of one of my clanmates in order to allow him to restart with a better country (and admittedly it's really goddamn sad), I do have a very good excuse; he claimed Mass Effect 3 was a good game.

Xinhuan, I completely get that, well, except the farming part. There is plenty of farming going on. My whole point was, if its acceptable to start using ab's rather than killing a country, then the tactic found to get around that shouldn't be whined about. No rules are being broken, its just a way for the smaller to keep coming at the larger.

Except the farming part? How can you make that kind of argument? Xinhuan isn't saying that LaF/SoF don't farm, but that the BRs/ABs are not used to weaken the enemy so that they can be farmed later. Is this something you would agree too?

As for the friendly fire kills, no one is saying it's illegal. The question we are trying to debate is if it is dirty. I vote yes because (1) taking friendly fire should never be a goal and (2) the restart bonuses appear to be somewhat broken and actively seeking it is a bit shady imo.

the mods should review/modify the restart bonuses so as not to encourage more internal killings in tags. if they are not into abusing DRs, then this one should be looked into also. this issue might contribute to the death of this game with people being disappointed of "dirty war tricks".

WTF's with this post???!!!

All is fair in LOVE and WAR!

If they are actively ab'ing or br'ing countries to keep them from growing too big, and then making sure to farm almost everyone that hits 5k land, then yeah, I would say that is EXACTLY what is being done.

And how is it a bit shady? It's a new use of the game mechanics, in response to someone elses use of those same mechanics to their advantage. Necessity is the mother of invention as they say. It's no more shady than calling in an ally in an even war ;)

And the losing side of a war being farmed nonstop isnt going to drive people from the game? We need to be looking at ways to make things more balanced, not create an even larger gulf than there already is!

no mate, farming has always been there after war ever since this game begun. so i don't think it contribute that much, but it could. farming always stops whenever CFs were declared or one side uses diplomacy over pride.

last time we warred PDM, that was last set, we never farmed them into oblivion as they were too quick to make a pact. i don't see that effort being made by SPERM. so yeah, the loosing side should "expect" to be farmed.

and that is different from the issue being discussed, "dirty war tricks". farming is never an issue during war.

If the end result was to farm those countries, they wouldn't use BRs or ABs to weaken them...they would just farm the countries. SoF and LaF have more than enough resources to farm SPERM that they wouldn't need AB/BR to soften them up (and place those countries in DR!)

Lastly, are you a member of SoF or LaF?


I have already listed the two reasons why it is a dirty war tactic.

No more shady than calling in an ally? Well I consider sending untagged suiciders at the start of the set to be a step above that ;)

Otbol is correct. If anyone is concerned about members leaving because of consequences of War, whether it be for getting farmed after a loss, or exhaustion from a continued war effort, then the leaders of their alliance should change the way they sign pacts.

I consider AB'ing during war time just plain cowarness

I consider using the 'war room' during war to be sheer idiocy.

Are you retarded, or were you just born that way?

seems like the admins aren't interested in modifying/reviewing the restart benefits. it's very disappointing. they're probably beneficiaries of this thing, also "encouraging" inter-alliance killing just to benefit from the restart rate.

http://forums.earthempires.com/...30788&z=restart-rates

i hate to see this game die... sooner or later.

The AB/BR'ing won't stop until changes have been made to how restarts work.

As of now we've been told there's no issue. If you have a problem with the new war tactics you're complaining on the wrong thread. Pick any of the restart related topics on the Announcements board to properly direct your anger.

disappointment is different from anger. :P

that is why i am referring to the link i posted as there seems to be a "nevermind what people are suggesting" attitude. and i don't think they will see the issue unless they are on the winning side.

So, members of SPERM are whining due to losing a war, and members of the other side are whining because of new restart changes.


I'm playing among crybabies.

you get it all wrong mate. no one is whining and nobody's crying. unless of course if you don't want people to take part for the betterment of the game.

we can just shut up and wait til the game dies or we can suggest something that needs to be looked into by the admins. which ONE do you prefer?

multi's, and FA/alliances from a non waring tagged country their country should be farmed by any policer tag,

there is no clean war

Honestly, I split my wars into aranged/friendly and non-aranged (real wars).

For non-aranged wars, I believe there are no bars held, within the game rules.

as they say, all is fair in love and war