I'm out for a bit. Don't get bored!



PS. hanlong is a better person than me.

lol...

how long must we miss seeing your posts for? :(

bonus post

Is that sarcasm? :p

Not putting a timeframe on it - but it won't be as long as my last layoff (which was from like 2007-2010)

Pang has plenty of time to code in some sweet war dynamics without heckling from me now!

With you gone i think Pang should take time off too. It's only fair, sort of create balance in the force, so to speak.

All hail dagga15k.

Hanlong is not a better person than you!

Dagga, your a piece of fluff for that top feed.

Really? I think that was pretty awesome. I've posted the 3 largest grabs in this server for this reset so far:

Sep/29/11 22:50:34 	PS 	abSOLutely flawless II (#883) (SOLdiers) 	myDONisHugeANdLONG (#44) (LaF) 	                15416 	A 	22695 	A
Sep/29/11 17:42:29 	PS 	Not fluffing Lobo (#671) (Sanct) 	        BRAVES WIN 4 WILDCARD B1TCHES (#981) (Sanct) 	11377 	A 	15203 	A
Sep/08/11 5:27:35 	PS 	AllXPnetter (#692) (Sanct) 	                myDONisHugeANdLONG (#44) (LaF) 	                10999 	A 	14564 	A

Go dagga! (Sup hanshlong)

Yes, I'm not surprised that Evo members think it is pretty awesome when a LaFfer loses 30M ending NW to a deliberate grab by a pacted clan.
I wouldn't even be surprised if KJ put him up to it.

I've been out of this game for a couple of years before returning this set, but I'm saddened that the two top netgaining clans are so hostile towards each other. I've been looking at EVO top countries and spy ops the entire reset to see how they were doing, what they were doing, trying to see if our top countries could beat them, and I can honestly say at no point I though "blargh, that country is to good, I hope somebody suicides/screws up his ending". Guess some people on both sides just have to much bad blood between them...

But hey, at least he stuck it to all those lame-ass netgainers, right guys? Guys?

I'm torn between saying good riddance and expressing sympathy for the job loss. So I'll give you a nuetral :|.

Well, when LaF refuses to uphold their end of a pact with EVO, what the hell do you honestly expect?

Well, generally when somebody breaks pact (leaving aside what happened), the alliance that feels let down does something proportional to how bad the violation was. Not get some lapdog to do it. Surely EVO must have countries that could have done this as well...
Guess I am naive about earth politics these days and/or SoL urgently needs friends.

it's going to feel weird saying it, but

take care dagga, be well

Yes, we do have countries that are capable of doing what dagga has done here. However, Evo's pact with LaF has stipulations of what happens if something like this were to happen between the two alliances. In this case, if Evo were the agressors, we would end up paying several dozen billion dollars worth of reps.

However, since SOL made the hit, it depends on the pact that LaF has with SOL. And, IIRC, the pact between SOL and LaF has no stipulations for this situation. So, unless LaF and SOL works something out, all LaF can do is uphold SOL's retal policy. Which, IIRC, is 1:1.

So, since LaF are currently in the process of not following their end of the pact with EVO, let's all wait and see if LaF are willing to also scrap their pact with SOL.


P.S. I typed all that on my phone during a boring meeting, and my thumbs got tired before I could type everything I wanted to type. So, here goes:

AFAIK, Evo had nothing to do with the grab on hanlong's country. I say "AFAIK" because I am not in leadership, nor do I even have admin site access on Evo's site or here. Hey, not my fault that certain people can't keep their mouths shut, amirite?

/me calls shenanigans

For the record, all I said is "I wouldn't be surprised". I am not "in the know" with LaF/EVO or SoL.

I always assumed that if side A doesn't uphold its end of the bargain and you did whatever you felt was needed to make things even again "retal Hanlong/whatever EVO decides" that you obviously wouldn't pay reps for that, but hope that the other side would accept it as "even". And if not, war makes oilers happy (crappy oil set!!!).

so you're saying that evo told dagga to topfeed hanlong?

i have only spoken to dagga once when i asked to interview him (last month) and he replied: fluff off.

also i doubt sol are evo's lapdogs, especially when u look at the past events between evo/sol.

get a clue.

why would evo get a secondary alliance to do it anyway? anybody from evo could have just detagged and grabbed hanlong themselves if they wanted, but i guess there's something called integrity and sticking to a pact and its terms.

*cough*

Before this all gets out of hand...
1) I apologize for insinuating EVO leadership has something to do with this. I don't think they would do anything like this as it would be both stupid an unnecessary.
2) In fact I greatly respect you guys both for you NG ability wanting to stick to a pact. If there's anything I learned way back then it is that that is the only way to survive as NG alliance.
3) I am still saddened that there seems to be ill blood between some members of EVO and some members of LaF (both at fault), with "I wouldn't mind if X got suiceded on" claims on this very board, as there shouldn't be any reason, and just hope that nobody there stepped outside of his/her authority.
4) Dagga is dagga, could just be his ending fluff move.

There is nothing to follow in the pact with evo.

The country was untagged. We may be responsible for his actions for 72 hours, but that doesn't mean that he is bound by our retal policies, or that they somehow apply to him.

Evo's policy is 72 hours, so that is that.

Even if we were to concede that LaF's retal policies still somehow apply to untagged countries (which we don't), then you broke the pact by triple tapping him, as that would imply that he is still under the LaF umbrella.

Third, you have already spoken to a LaF representative about this. Just because you didn't like your chances of getting an outcome you like with that individual, doesn't mean you get to run around talking to every LaF head until you find one that will give you an answer you do like. That isn't how we roll. Eugene is on that case now, so he is on that case now. Deal with him or deal with nobody.

We could have told you that ~2 years ago when Lens' detagged country was farmed by a LaFfer, and that LaF country was GSed to keep Lens from getting his land back. Your esteemed DON back then told us that by not paying reps, we'd be breaking the pact we had with LaF. So we paid reps because we wanted to still be friends with LaF at that time.

This situation is the exact same scenario (with slightly different events), except reversed. And LaF refuses to pay reps despite the fact their untagged country--still under LaF's responsibility--failed to follow Evo's retal policy. I do not have access to pacts, so I do not know what the pact says. I do know that if that pact does not have a clause that says "if you hit our detagged country, then we have no responsibility over that country", then, yes, you ARE responsible for the actions your detagged country took (within 72 hours blah blah). Also, if our pact does not have stipulations on what exactly the responsibility over detagged countries entails (for example, retals), then, yes, you ARE responsible for the 2 landgrabs your detagged country took outside the 48-hr retal window.

Remember, it is LaF that demanded we pay reps because one of those clauses wasn't in our pact with them. So if that clause still isn't there, then the responsibility ultimately falls to LaF, and, as a signatory of an unbreakable NAP with EVO, they therefore have an obligation to follow all the stipulations of that pact.

Is it ironic at all that Dagga leaves with a post saying peace when he talks all about war 24/7? :P

H4: Who are you going to detag last minute this reset? Need a calculator? I hear microsoft make good ones, and they're FREE!!

On the issue at hand: The detagged LaF country took retals (per the pact) and then proceeded to take more outside of the 48hr window, so you're still in the wrong, but nice try.

P.S. what about the reps you owe evo from last reset when the same guy suicided us?

mmmmmmhmmmmm..

ttt because of edited post...apparently, editing a post doesn't help the thread get back ttt..

are you ttt'ing this because everyone has to know dagga quit?

How are we wrong? Your retal policy is 72 hours. He was an untagged and thus had no official policy. Conclusion: Your retal policy applies.

The previous case is completely different. The Evo country attacked laffers that didn't hit him. That is a suicide, and is considered as such by the policies of everyone involved as well as the general practice of the game overall. Plus he ended up RETAGGING evo after he drained land off other tags and was knocked into DR by EVO's GS's. How is that situation comparable to this in any way?

This is a case of Evo trying to claim that an untagged country should be bound by LaF's retal policy simply because he is under our 72 hour detag suicide responsibility obligation. That is not the case.

He retaled as per your retal policy, which is perfectly legitimate given that he is an untagged country. Had he suicided your tag, that is a different matter all together and we would be paying reps without question.

The country that grabbed the evo detagger was put into DR by LaF. What do general practices of the game have to say about that?

"Had he suicided your tag, that is a different matter all together and we would be paying reps without question."
Didn't he do that the set before?

Our retal policy is 48 hours. Check our policy page. He made 2 additional landgrabs after 48 hours, but before 72 hours. Your alliance is responsible for detaggers for 72 hours after detagging. You can't sign a pact stating you're responsible, then try to go back and say what you're NOT responsible for after something happens. That's why we're still on AT.

Also, in the previous case, Lens didn't attack multiple LaF countries. He landgrabbed ONE country for 4033 acres. And we paid that back, 200% L:L, as per our pact (even though we didn't want to, because of the whole pact deal). One landgrab is NOT a suicide.

You have no retal policy page on your site. Your retal policy on the earth wiki makes no reference to retal window duration (as of last night when I checked it).

You have made no policy announcements on AT or anywhere of similar public availability to indicate that you changed from a 72 hour to a 48 hour window at any point (that we've seen).

"Lens didn't attack multiple LaF countries", now you are just arguing semantics. One country or 20, he attacked a country that didn't hit him, thus it wasn't a "retal".

Ahh and out of curiosity at what exact point does it become a suicide? is that point different if it was provoked hits? Do expand on that.

No, he did it 2 resets before. It was also with a country that was never tagged laf (or any other tag) at any point.

Its nice to know that private issues that I bring to admin attention is being relayed to alliance mates though...

Then perhaps you can try looking at our pact with LaF. Should be there somewhere. Only reason that I can think of why we haven't made any announcement, is if we negotiate retal windows with each alliance. Your detagger should have known our retal window in any case.

Your detagger also hit a country that had not hit him within our retal window. Therefore, it wasn't a "retal".


So, when do we get our reps?

Evo's pact with LaF isn't relevent in this sense.

LaF is obligated by its pact to take responsibility for the actions of its former members for up to 72 hours. That is a LaF responsibility.

When a country detags, it it no longer bound by our pacts. We are bound to be responsible for that countries actions, but it is in no way bound to our policies. Otherwise, as previously stated, why are you hitting it to begin with? our pact indicates that no hits are to be exchanged for any reason. If the country is supposedly, according to you, still bound by the pacts we signed and our retal policies, then on the fip side you are bound not to hit it for any reason.

I think everyone would agree that this isn't the case. Why? BECAUSE THE COUNTRY IS NO LONGER PROTECTED BY OUR TAG, OR ITS POLICIES.

LaF has a policy that we will take responsibility for our former members actions for a certain amount of time. Countries leaving our tag have in no way agreed to continue to abide by LaF policies once they are no longer in our tag.

It is untagged, and applicable to "untagged policies", which is why your country hit it in the first place, and why you feel that he wasn't in the wrong to do so.

That's exactly the opposite of what your DON told us ~2 years ago. Try again.

I was the Don 2 years ago, and I said no such thing.

Try again.

Man up

or don't

War!

(seriously, you guys just need to fight this out. fluff between your tags is going to keep on escalating, other tags are going to get coerced into doing somebodies dirty work for them, allies will get called in, grudges will ensue, rinse, repeat, ad nausum. Wouldn't it be easier to just duke it out next set netto v netto? OR, let the two biggest trolls fight in the street somewhere . . . well, pretty hard to ID the biggest trolls in this case.)

SS vs KJ/Anon/Or Slagpit? :P

be with you

Hang on a second, aren't you bound by the "policies" of the alliance/clan/country you hit?

So if you're hitting an untagged - shouldn't he be retalling according to his policies and not yours?

In a perfect world

But as an untagged he has no formal policy, so is either Evo policy or the server standard.

The standard of the server is

1:1
2:3
3:5

On 72 hours, no L:L. Right?

The double taps I made on two laf countries were not suicide. I made it clear that it was a response to the gs'ng fluff. If my intention was to suicide I would have done more than that. Now I sound like a broken record.

Lens, you only made one grab on LaF after they farmed you. Unless you're talking about a different reset?

Anyways, it doesn't matter.

Wow you guys hijacked my thread. Uncool.

why would evo coerce another alliance into FSing LaF? When was the last time evo did that to any alliance, in fact when was the last time Evo FSed an alliance over trivial AT arguments or in fact just to throw their weight around?

i think you'll find - we have never done this.

though, i can't speak for LaF on that, because im not in laf.

anyway, this current argument is getting old even for me :P.
laf have made their position clear, so evo and i will just have to live with it.

Honestly, its your fault. Next time, you should password your thread, so no one can hijack it.

locket has to be considered - though his slap fighting skills may need some polishing

;p