they will ruin family values, and destroy the sanctity of marriage!
its true!
if gays marry, they will come into your house and force you to not only divorce your spouse, but they will make you hate your kids and self destruct your relationship with them.
not sure how. but its true.

http://www.youropi.com/...enten/gay-pride-2010-3617

well gay sex is just like campin i think. they just rub their sticks together and whoosh you got a kid

Lol popcom, I'd have to agree with that. There's more gays hiding under the woodwork than you think. One day they're all going to come out in force and take over.

This is by far the most ridiculous and downright stupid reason for outlawing same sex marriage.

One out of two heterosexual marriages fail and many of the remainder quickly become unhappy or, what's perhaps worse, indifferent toward each other but stick it out often for financial reasons. Child abuse and neglect occur in countless heterosexual marriages which can and does produce endless problems for society and the taxpayers.

Some of our show business "idols" marry umpteen times and does anyone say they are destroying the sanctity of marriage or family values???

Even many of our right-wing politicians who extol the beauty of male/female legal unions and lead the Tea Party and other similar groups are divorced, remarried, adulterers, all the while raving on about how same-sex couples are destroying our family oriented society. Check out the governor of South Carolina's private life. Check out Newt Gingrich's private life. Check out old Larry King--on his 8th marriage now??????????? and at his age too.

So please do not claim that just because a man and a woman marry, they are ensuring the beauty of a til death do us part marital union and the fine well adjusted offspring they produce between them.

I think gays should be allowed to get married. Then, they can get screwed on their taxes like us heteros do.

Exactly and since it's been proven that same-sex couples are quite a bit wealthier than male/female ones, that would mean more taxes coming in--ease the debt a bit.

politics have no business here

what is marriage? What is the point in marriage? Who started it? why can we not have as many spouces as we wont? Is there more than one type of marriage? Please dont reply . My mind is made up on all of the above. If you change what marriage is its no longer a marriage, its a contract worth only what people are willing to give to it. call it what you will but dont tell me its a marriage if pro-creation has no part to play.

eh..if you are a Dr. and your only potential love pool is a Dr.
You're screwed

Get it?

nope, sure don't. But then I'm as dense as a two by four too.

Ok, here is the deal for me:
To each his own,i care not,but if you only look for a brown,smokin' turd...that may be all you find...

I don't care who you fall in love (lust) with. Whatever floats your boat. And don't think it's any of my business at all.

yea, imo if you are against gay marriage, dont be gay and get married..otherwise what do u care

why do you care who marries who? It has absolutely no effect whatsoever on your life.

Are you against married people getting divorced?

How many times should a person be able to marry and then get divorced?

What would you do when you are older and have an adult child who comes and tells you he/she is gay? Would you cut them out of your life completely?

hmm hmm hmm...I'm really tryin to stay out of this one lol

its all a load of crapola....

live and let live,just be pleased there are happy happy in a relationship...... if you do not like "their" lifestyle it is not hard to avoid...

some of my best friends are for all intents and purposes "married".... just cause a relgious arguement has to get invovled is where it all falls over..

You are exactly right Bsnake. Marriage is a religious term for when a man and woman join together to share a life and blah blah blah....

So why is it that gays want so badly to identify themselves with those roles? I mean really; is acceptance not allowing others to do their own thing and you doing your own thing? Why is it such a big deal for gays to force themselves into the married realm. Go to a justice of the peace, sign a civil union agreement, put on wedding rings, no one will ask why, and just do your own thing. Don't force your ideas under the same umbrella as mine. I won't try and force gays to be straight. I won't paint stripes on a horse and make you call it a zebra. Don't be a gay couple and try to make me call you a "wife and wife" or "man and man", it is different and that is fine. Don't try to make me accept it as normal when it is outside of the norm. No malice, but if you have gay pride be proud of doing your own thing and leave others to do their own thing.

IMO divorce is so common now because we live in a "ME. NOW society". What makes "me" happy "right now". People marry during the "lust period" of their relationship and start looking somewhere else once the lust becomes the norm and is not exciting anymore. We are just selfish, self-serving bastards.

Say no to being bullied by political correctness into feeling like you can't speak your mind. Like, dislike, for or against you should feel like you can say what you think.

I could go on, but I won't. I will just wrap up by saying that if we met on the street and you didn't tell me you were gay and I didn't tell you I was straight would it make a snow flakes difference in Hell? I think not. At the end of the day, when you lay your head on your pillow, is it what someone else thinks of you that keeps you up, or what you think of yourself?

abbadon - good post.

Do I agree with Gay lifestle NO,Never!!!

However this whole thing is not about marriage or anything close IMO. Its about the Gays having a voice in politics and wanting to scare everyone and anyone off from speaking their veiws against the Gay community.

IE its ok for gays to bash the religious people but HOW DARE THEY SAY ANYTHING ABOUT GAYS..

This is america and the Day you think you can take my voice away or sensor what I say, you'd better be packing heat..cause I AM!

STAND UP for your rights before small minority belief groups take them away...Call Sin-Sin, crime-crime, hate-hate etc..Don't be fooled into political correct veiws that are not correct, and let them know you won't be scared into remaining silent.

as far as the marriage thing couldnt agree more with abbadon...why do you think you need to have the title of marriage...just do your thing and go on you way.

one thing is for sure, you plant wheat you harvest wheat.
So if gays are so sure what they do is correct, I can't wait to see the harvest from all their planting.

i can't say no because there ain't no dang gays asking me to get married yet. how can i say no if they haven't even asked the question...

Ok, i have never ever herd someone make this first statement. Religion has ALWAYS been the most oppressive force on the planet. and unlike other groups who spread fear and hate, they have always had the pull to do something, not shy of murder to enforce what they believe onto others.

also, having the title of married is more then just a title. Guess you aren't married so i understand that u overlook it. But there are a LOT of legal...lets call them perks, to being married. and its far reaching, everything from tax breaks, health care, to pensions. so a discrimination against gays to marry actually lowers the quality of life not only at the present time, but farther down the road as people get into retirement age.

Not to sure what your talking about there harvesting...are you implying that there actions will have a long turn affect on there soul or something? LOL

So instead of forcing religions to accept what they do not view as correct make civil unions carry the same weight as marriage. Much easier to do and is not so in your face and oppressive to the religious people of this country.

Pop you are looking at this from a different perspective, I am guessing, so please don't be offended if I am wrong, but I would gather from your posts that you do not follow a faith, but do, at least occasionally watch the news. So you see the side of the gay rights protesters in the street or in front of the camera trying to force their beliefs into someone elses way of life, and do not sit in church or read the pages of your faiths text to understand why this is so wrong to some people. So you have no strong ideation as to why it is so bad to be gay or whatever or why the term "marriage" means so much. Some people do feel that being gay is bad and feel it very deeply, but that is not what this argument is about for most of us that do not support gay marriage.

I personally feel that if this country is going to remain free and truly represent the role model that other countries strive to become as it has in the past, that it needs to leave marriage, faith, gun rights, and free speech alone. Pass laws to identify that civil unions, sworn in front of whoever has the power to sign off on them, shall carry the same weight as a marriage license. Allows gays or straight couples for that matter, to decide what kind of union they want to enter, for what should be the rest of their lives, and then do just that. That way they are not trying to force someone to accept something they do not want to accept and same sex couples are not denied any "perks" of having a piece of paper to remind them that they are joined contractually and not just by choice anymore.

SAY NO TO GAY MARRIAGE !!

It is not about equal rights for same sex couples. There are other better ways to equal the benefits for same sex couples. It is simply an attack on faith based institutions such as marriage.

You are right about people fighting to the death and taking lives in support of their faiths. Religion or faith is oppressive in the fact that it sets down a guideline for how you should live your life. I have not studied any religions, none, but it seems that some, if not most, speak directly against same sex couples. (From my limited view of what most religious people around me have to say.)

And yes I believe MedicineMan2 was referring to what happens after we part from this life.

I live in a civil union state. My mother in law and step mother in law have a civil union. And yet in many hospitals one would be barred from visiting the other because the hospital does not consider a civil union mate as "family"

Exactly why the laws need to reflect that "Civil Unions" carry the same legal rights and privileges as "Marriage". Problem solved without walking on peoples belief system.

the laws state exactly that. And in the eyes of the state government a "civil union" is equal to a "marriage". But that doesn't stop non-state governmental entities, or for that matter entities outside of my state from not following that law. In practice the civil union ends up being seperate but equal in the same sense that the segregated schools were separate but equal.

Agree totally with Abbadon.

Have never ever heard of gay people running around trying to persuade others to become gay, but certainly have read of thousands of incidents of hate crimes by straight people against gays, even murdering them because of the sexual orientation.


Have even personally witnessed the end result of gays being beaten to a pulp by the born-again Christians in the high school where I taught for many years.

ponderer if the laws were federal it would relieve this stress from your situation. Federal level politicians need to represent their constituents and take care of this. I harbor pretty conservative views and would still support any legislation on a federal level that would identify civil unions as having the same legal rights as a marriage.

Mad Mortica sorry to hear about what happened to the gays in your high school. Hate is hate no matter what banner you fly it under.

"if two people want to be unhappy together, let'em" - eminem

a true conservative believes that the government has no business telling people who can and cannot get married. If the government recognizes any marriage, then it should recognize all marriages.

Please do not become a troll ponderer and try to tell me what I am or am not!!

That is like trying to tell someone who is gay or straight that they are the opposite. Please do not take this thread in that direction.

"I harbor pretty conservative views and would still support any legislation on a federal level that would identify civil unions as having the same legal rights as a marriage."

This is, I assume, what you are referring to. Please read it again.

It does not say anything about what the government should or should not allow. I simply said Civil Unions should carry the same weight, legally, as a marriage.

Marriage is a religious institution, recognized by state and federal law. Let Civil union be be an institution, recognized by state and federal law.

And let ponderer not try to incite anger by trying to tell people what they have to say or do to be a true anything! Very not cool man.

My view is that the only thing that makes my marriage different than a "civil union" is that it was done in a church by a priest.

My marriage is through the Roman Catholic Church, and if the Roman Catholic Church doesn't want to recognize gay marriage, so be it.

However, that's each individual church's right to decide whether to accept and perform those marriages or not.

People who feel that marriage must be between a man and a woman usually argue based on religious reasons, which is fine, but if you take out the religious aspect of marriage, what possible reason could any of us have to oppose two people who love each other from being recognized by the government to be able to act on each others' behalf?

And MedicineMan: Beyond the point that Popcom made about religious authority often being an oppressive force, ripping on a religion and ripping on a group of people is quite different.

"Wall Street is a greedy bunch of crooks" is an attack on an idea.

"John T. Stocktrader is a greedy crook" is a personal attack.

Big difference there.

I have to disagree with your comment Twain about ripping on a religion and ripping on a group of people being a different thing. If I said Catholics are child molesters, that would include you, If I said Priest XyXyXy was a child molester that would be attacking/ identifying a person. If I said gays should commit suicide that would be wrong as I do not know all gays, but If I said John gay Catholic priest who molested Billy should commit suicide then that would be identifying a person. If I said Gays should all be fashion coordinators or that Catholics should all be from Rome that is still applying an unfair bias to a group of people. I would not do this and it should be looked down upon equally by everyone.

But back to the topic:

Other than that Twain you are right on the money. If two people sign a contract they should honor it and so should their respective government. So let's as Americans make our elected officials do what we tell them and pass laws to this effect.

Fortunately for me I can say this as an American and not worry about being beheaded or otherwise killed as in some other nations around the globe. This issue is being worked through in this country by the people of this country, as it should be.

Thanks for your most sincere interest Popcom for how we handle our affairs, but dude really Go fluff yourself. Do you really have so little control over your own government and what happens in your own country that you have to look around at other countries, where people can actually be heard and bring about change without rioting and burning things, and try to tell them what they should do?

Try being gay in Iran, or other than Muslim for that matter, or try changing government policy in Greece.

Things are not perfect here, but they are better than anywhere else on the globe. We can openly discuss our ideas and beliefs, organize peacefully, be protected nearly 100% equally by our police (cops are human and subject to human flaws and feelings) and even act like complete fools and not worry about being executed for it. We cannot be stopped in mass on the highway because the police feel like it and are presumed innocent until found guilty.

Gay, straight, white, asian, black, or purple polka dotted it does not change your rights.

Civil unions should be recognized and available for any one who wants to be a party to one. Marriage is a religious term that identifies the union between a woman and a man.

Change the state issued marriage certificate to say "Marriage Certificate / Civil Union Certificate " if you please, but there is no physical way for a man to marry a man or a woman to marry a woman. The definition does not fit.

There is just no two ways to see this.

So what we are saying is that short term unions for any reason should be allowed,? I see alot of wagging the dog going on in the USA right now. I dont see it ending well .

Abbadon: I agree that "Catholics are child molesters" is offensive.

That's still ripping on people, as opposed to the organization. When the "hate" is being targeted at people, that's not cool. When it's being targeted at organizations, that's a different story--not that it's good, but it's certainly a different thing.

Hope that clarifies what I meant to say more clearly earlier.

And as far as the government is concerned, what is marriage? It's a contract between two people that changes taxing conditions and gives the two people rights concerning things like power of attorney.

If you're opposed to it for moral reasons, that's fine, but that's an issue to bring up with your CHURCH. Not your government. Whether your marriage/civil union is moral or immoral isn't within the realm of the government to decide, since it doesn't hurt or infringe upon the rights of anyone else.

oh, and otherwise, thanks for your addition to what I said--I think you actually did a far better job with that last paragraph of articulating what I was trying to say than I did.

If you mean the gov't (the tail) pushing the people left and right (wagging the dog) then yes I agree.

Not the first time this has hapened. We lived through JFK and FDR and all the other socialists who got elected, and in time we will recover from this commie/socialist in office as well.

If you read the first line of my first post you will see I said:

"You are exactly right Bsnake. Marriage is a religious term for when a man and woman join together to share a life and blah blah blah.... "

and later I said:

"Pass laws to identify that civil unions, sworn in front of whoever has the power to sign off on them, shall carry the same weight as a marriage license"

And there is more references if you read above that say they should carry the same entry and exit requirements as any marriage.

So, no, not an entry and exit as you please environment.

As to your other point:

Cool thing about how we operate. No one holds the reigns for too long.

Checks and balances.

I will agree however that it is getting harder to keep up who voted for what bill to pass when and so forth. And what is in each prop/bill. There are just too many changes at the last minute that don't make it to where we can read them before they go to the House floor and then there are even more revisions added at the last minute before the Senate votes. It is really a challenge to keep up. Truthfully on most issues I do not weigh in.

I probably would have let this pass without a comment except that I knew the original poster was not even a citizen of this country and to be completely honest that fact pissed me off. What weight does a non citizen of this country have on issues within our borders. I did not start a thread with "Hey Greece pull your head out of your a## before you kill one of the major industries that support your country because people want to go an vacation and relax there and you are handling your internal issues like baboons." I simply let it pass because that is not my country and I have no say in what happens there. However the gay marriage discussion is happening in my country and I do have a say in how it turns out. Why don't the gay couples go to Canada to get married? The Canadians come here to receive health care that they do not have to wait years on, don't they? Can same sex couples go to Canada or Mexico to have their ceremonies performed?

I know in my logical thought process that I should let this thread go since I have, I feel, pretty clearly stated my position and why I support it, but it is hard to watch the peanut gallery step on what I so strongly believe in. Not the gay marriage issue, but the idea of a free nation where we can debate and reason our way through solutions within our own borders to maintain the dignity of things like religion and marriage, but accept things that are outside of those traditions as different, but also acceptable.

So where ever you are from uldust and Popcom you being in Canada, work on and worry about what needs attention in your country. I am not going to presume to tell you how it is supposed to be there or what you should or should not allow there and I would appreciate if you would do the same.

I agree Twain. If churches want to perform the marriages then let them. Do not force them. I may have already said this, but the government should recognize that a contract has been entered into and recognize that contract. The government is not in the business of regulating morality.

A marriage is defined by the Bible, not the lawmakers.

The state issues marriage certificates as a revenue source. Change the title, create more revenue, and get the hell out of what i or anyone else thinks is moral.

One tiny thing that I do know and would like to throw in here. Should a gay couple go to Canada to marry and then return to the U.S. where they reside, and should the relationship go sour, as many relationships do, gay or straight, the gay couple must go to Canada to get a divorce and they must reside in Canada for, I think, two years (feel free to correct that length of time) before being able to get a divorce. Also this must be factored in--are they financially independent or must they work during this waiting period? If the latter, are they able to get a work permit from the Canadian government? Fairly difficult to get one during these days of high unemployment.

Gay Marriage for some, miniature American flags for others!!!

Abbadon. well thought out and well put. But ,and you know there was going to be a but.lol. having a law for the right and another for the left cannot work. If it is only the wouldview of the right that is in the way of everyone being able to join in" marriage" .

would it not be much better to allow the right to "think" there thoughts , allow the left to "think" there thoughts about marriage under the same law ? If its only a matter of what is thought then no harm is done.

uldust from the great state of missery.lol

Pride Parades costs me extra $20 on parking at work.
Pride Parades costs my lunch an extra $20 on that day at work.

Pride Parades creates traffic jam, wastes gasoline, and wastes public tax payer's money by having cops drive IN the parade with government issued cars, while they are being paid to PROTECT civilians. They often JOIN IN on the parade with motorcycles showing off and simply wasting gasoline all around.

I'm not against LGBT folks. Most of you are probably more friendlier then most folks simply because you have experienced the hatred of others.

I understand that Pride Parades are an expression of liberation from control and disrespect and all that jazz, but when is it too much? The attention and general distaste of that the parade (mostly the choice of costumes, or lack of costumes) creates sometimes just pure annoy people who are affected by these actions.

And now some LGBT communities are trying to force schools to teach LGBT preferences? Look, we respect you, but you aren't going to corrupt these little kids by telling them how 'cool' you can be. Kids are easily influenced and I'm sure in 20-30 years, we are going to start seeing people that are LGBT because as a kid, they saw the parade and watned to be one of them, so they became LBGT by influence.

It's like those crazy christians who wants schools to teach that this 'god' dude made everything, but he would create all these disasters and kill millions of people just to teach the rest of us a lesson. But let's leave that for another thread.

For the record, I actually agree that there's no need to teach this in schools, because I feel schools are overburdened in the things they need to teach already and that might be one of the problems why we lag behind in certain areas.

However--I think your reasoning why is simply bizarre. You think people are going to live a gay or lesbian lifestyle because they think it's cool? I know people are pretty easily influenced about certain things based on how "cool" it's perceived to be, and I'll even believe that people might even say they're bisexual or experiment because of a perception that it's cool (after all, I remember many a college party that involved girls making out with each other, and I can't imagine that they all, now several years later, would identify as either lesbian or bisexual), however I think comparing sexual preference to religion is a bit far-fetched.

Sexual preference is much more visceral and, I would argue, hard-wired into the brain. Religion is not just something you feel naturally and can understand without at least some guidance.

Twain is such a wise man. So glad he is my friend. Might be naive but after teaching for 34 years, don't know of a single instance where the teachers are teaching their students that it is cool to be gay. Come on.................... In fact, the schools where I taught, it was against school policy to teach anything about sexuality, including birth control--a fact that probably helped the state to rank first in teenage pregnancy.

Does watching the Thanksgiving parades influence children to grow up and look like a fat balloon?

Forgotten--sorry about your extra expenses. Possible to take public transportation that day? How about brown bagging it for lunch?

Twain - Clockwork Orange.

I would suggest you download and view Gay porn for 24 hours straight, and have to try and enjoy it, then I would be willing to bet that you would atleast be interested.

M.M It's hard to brownbag when you live by yourself, have to drive an hour to work in the morning. I'm lazy, yes.

I'm not talking about teachers saying it's cool to be gay, I'm talking about during the parade, little kids sees all these things, and trust me, kids are very easily influenced.


If a kid sees a T, then asks their parents about what they are, then a mother who's too good for herself, tells her kid, that, oh he's a man who decided he wanted to be a girl instead. And the kid goes, OH WOW, I want to be a girl too.


You know what I mean?

And let's revisit in twenty or so years.

I still see problems in your logic.

First of all, I disagree with your opening statement. Watching gay porn wouldn't make me want to participate in gay sexual acts anymore than watching Nazi propaganda films would make me want to persecute and kill Jewish people. Of course, I know your first statement wasn't your main point, since I'm an adult and you're referring to children.

So, to address that idea, I do accept that kids are highly susceptible to different ideas, but at the same time, I don't think the message they would get from a gay pride parade would be that it's cool to be gay, and if they did, it would only be because they don't understand what it truly means. Once the kid is old enough to hit puberty, they're pretty much going to figure out whether they're homosexual or heterosexual based on their feelings at that time, and it likely won't be all that influenced by a gay pride parade they saw when they were 6 years old.

Furthermore, while I understand some people work in areas where these parades are, like yourself, there's simply no reason why the vast majority of people, if not all people, who are watching over their kids, can't avoid those parades.

I accept the argument of wasting resources, but I just don't buy that kids are going to decide they're gay because of being exposed to gay people.

Ask a professional athelete why they wanted to be a professional athelete, they'll most likely cite that they saw 'whom' and 'whom' as a kid, and wanted to be just like him.


Why does a person, who's parents are of a profession, are most likely to follow in their parents' foot steps?


The more you are exposed to it, the more likely you will turn to be a part of it.

We've all heard of people in marriages suddenly realize that they are of LBGT variety, and changes.

But how often do you hear of a LGBT preference person, realizes that they are actually straight? And those that changes?

Exactly. I'd even go ahead and compare it to addiction. Alcoholics don't quit drinking, they just control themselves enough that they don't drink.


Maybe I'm just a whacko and people don't see things the way I see them. I just like to voice what I feel about.




No, I'm not saying that LGBT is a dieases, nor am I saying it's wrong. While I am NOT LGBT, and generally avoid getting to know more LBGT friends. I do have many who are LBGT and we are good friends, and they are discreet about their personal life.

I have no problems going out with a gay couple as friends, as long as they don't make out in public or something insane.

But your premise is that being gay/lesbian is their choice, where, according to the American Psychological Association,

"human beings cannot choose to be either gay or straight. For most people, sexual orientation emerges in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed."

You seem to think you've made a strong point with the fact that some people even go so far as to marry someone of the opposite sex only to realize later that they are homosexual, but the estimated number of people who are homosexual generally sit somewhere in the range of 10% (some much lower, some as high as 20%). Even if 20% of the population is homosexual, which I think is probably too high, homosexuality will still be the "other." It's one thing to have sexual confusion because you associate yourself with what is considered to be normal, but to suggest that it will be common for people to assume they're gay because of what they saw in a parade, be terribly confused, and only realize it later in life is simply foolish.

And yes, you actually are basically saying it's a disease, despite the fact that you deny it. Your newest argument is basically that homosexuality is something that can corrupt a straight person, but that once you're bitten by the bug, you'll always be gay, just like alcoholics will always be alcoholics.

I've been trying to argue this without really criticizing your opinions, but your arguments are very homophobic and small minded, not to mention that they are in complete opposition to the majority opinion of most developmental psychologists' opinions.

OK, will get down and personal here. I married a man who then fathered my children and shortly thereafter I discovered he was gay. Why was he gay? Am sure it wasn't because he watched a gay pride parade.

He was a U.S. Marine. Am fairly sure he didn't learn to be gay while he served his country. Who would have thunk it? I didn't, but once the children were out of H.S., I walked. Have no ill feelings toward him. If I didn't turn him on, sure am not going to agonize over my failure as a woman. Just accept it and go on. There are far far worse things in life.

Oh please.
Go out and have a same sex experience and then come tell me straight up that you didn't question yourself

I'm not talking about fluffing another guy

I'm talking about a dinner and a movie