A PDM member suicided on LaF during set A.
LaF hit PDM the next set (set B) because of it (since TAN refused to pay the reps -- if the reps were paid, no problem, and SS took them not being paid badly :p)
PDM LG/AB FS'ed us the next set (set C) over it and we had a war that was over mid-set.

The next time our paths crossed was when another PDM suicider targetted LaF 2 rounds ago (which was like a year later?).

LaF didn't want ANY of those issues... and like most of LaF's wars, LaF isn't the aggressor or the bad guy, regardless of how people try to spin it :p

Eh I thought you guys struck back the following set after that LG FS. I'll have to go back through and figure out why I thought that. I could have sworn you guys hit back that following set. Meh

I don't think so.... we pacted PDM to a 2-set pact as part of the cease fire after PDM FS'ed us, and we don't break pacts.

We weren't on eachothers' radars again until another PDM member suicided us, then many more detagged and started opping our countries. This was after PDM was getting schooled by NA but then a bunch of alliances jumped NA for cheating, leaving PDM sitting around doing nothing and they decided to screw with us. The reason ended up being that they didn't like the fact that we agreed to TAN's offered reps. :p

That last bit was probably the stupidest thing I've seen in EE yet. :p

LOL - That must have been a netting set for us because I didn't realize all that happened :P

lol ... how do you guys remember all that fluff?

Tivo :p

PANG can you come over and play with me?

lol Ruth...inorite? I can barely remember what I wore yesterday..let alone remember what happened forever ago in Earth :-P

LOL he got postwiped?

Keke larr~~ Pang was with me in ICN as assistant FA ;D Oh how things have worked out

I was also a leader in SoL a long time ago....

times DO change :p

See you on the battle field ! :)

I have been playing this game way tooooo long and have probably forgotten more of what happened that I remember. Maybe if I quit smokin the wacky fluff ..... nah, then the game would probably suck ;P


FYI ... Pang was my VP in Ragnarok a lifetime ago :P Fun times!

oh dear. poooooor you!

nah, he was a great VP at the time

leading Rag was tough work, lol

Dagga can enjoy the newest restart ;)

LOL.

You guys love me! You really really love me!

First country - you had a 1 hour window, you found it.
Second country - playing SC2, actually still in IRC in background
Third country - in the car, and 3 min kill.. gw

Fourth country - i garauntee I will get online!

Can we play this game until the end of the set? :)

Bring Norcal back

PS. Pangaer - you're a huge tool who can't see the stupid LaF policies for the trees.

Pessimism abounds when I see "Administrator" appear anywhere near your "new" anti-homophobic nickname.

id argue this war came from the sol policy of 72 hour escalating retals

which ill be nice and call an outlier from the whole history of the game :P

who the heck is running this war for LaF? Target selection seems questionable at best...

ya, LaF's policies aren't the outlier, SoL's are...

SoL is the only person who have that 72hr, all hits apply to the whole tag type of policy

LaF's policy is in line with the traditional 100% Land:Land, 24h hits on the alliance are seen as escalating hits

The only thing you could maybe cite is the 48h retal window, but that's something others have adopted as well (such as your FDP's in Collab) and that's something which is up for debate with alliances we are pacted to. Not pacting LaF was a choice SoL made, so you have absolutely no basis behind the "LaF's policies are the problem!" because we are actually a very reasonable alliance.

The issue which SoL cited in their war dec was a total of 4 hits on SoL all round -- exchanges which SoL was up 3k land from. 4 hits does NOT equal war with someone you consider a friend, ergo, SoL did not consider LaF a friend despite what their leaders continue to spew.

The attitude you display on these boards, dagga, is a direct reflection of SoL's attitude towards LaF, and it's atrocious that we even considered SoL to be at all friendly with us.

Also, you need to stop constantly attacking me for being an admin... it's honestly just becoming stupid. It's become so juvenile. Just because you would be a corrupt admin and can't understand how I am not doesn't mean that I am :)
If you can't separate my involvement as an admin and a player, then I suggest you move on to a new game, try to bring the attitude you bring here and see how long you last.

Most games would have already banned you many times over for that kind of admin flaming.
Attack my politics or my alliance all you want... but as soon as you start attacking me as an admin, you are crossing a line that is completely unacceptable. Keep it about my politics and my alliance and that's fine. Those are the kind of threads this board should have. If you have a problem with me as an admin at more than a trolling level, take it up with the other admins. If you are just trolling for the fun of it, I'd invite you to stop because it turns what should be a good discussion into trash every time you throw sentences like that last one in there.

ah but do u hit a friend 4 times? I would think not... so I guess LaF did not see SoL as a friend anymore

if that's the logic you want to bring, bobby, evo's making lots of enemies right now :p You guys are having exchanges with a few folks, it looks like.

a culture where grabs are done and everyone wins (like I said, SOL was up 3k acres) is something that is a positive for the game

the "OMG I GOT GRABBED AT ALL BY AN ALLIANCE WHO WE DIDN'T WANT TO PACT!!!! WAR" attitude has to go.

It's those type of policies which have made the server become stagnant.

actually EVO has just been retalling all set with the exception of one grab by a n00b late start on NA. And yes we don't view PDM as friends anymore...

well, PDM has a history of messing around with alliances who are netting, then complaining when they get attacked or grabbed for it :p

if you scroll up a bit, there's a conversation about it :p

In the words of a very obscure, but very wise, character:

What's this 'we' bullcrap? You're on your own, meatstick...

heh

I did think "wtf? why would bobby say that publicly...?" when he posted that :p

hehe b/c I talk too much=)

You guys would be bored silly without PDM. We are what makes this game worth playing and you know it! ;)

Pang has no credibility.

Sol is over rated.

can't believe it took me this long to find this place

Just read this thread, definitely not any smarter for it, so I'll contribute to the blah blah:



I have absolutely nothing against Maki, but his reputation as a manipulator/backstabber is legendary. And though I often agree with dagga re: LaF, he's certainly an idiot. Pang, I'm sure you're already aware that anyone who matters here realizes this about dagga. That's why I'm surprised you said something as silly as:



That comes across as pure, unjustified political posturing, along with:



This thread is pointless, sure, but I think Requiem (and dagga, minus the flaming and trolling) were on the money with their assessment of where LaF is at in terms of political opinion. I agree that LaF actually IS a reasonable clan like you've asserted, but the nose-in-the-air attitude (past and present) and the way you talk to and try to treat other alliances created the PR war that you're now having to wage with your anti-SOL comments quoted above (bad run on sentence, but you know).

Helped in no small part by this fact

and the fact that LaF is chock full of grumpy (albeit talented) vets, the condescension just got to a tipping point, where even though LaF was dominating the server, you're on the defensive. Losing this war to SOL didn't help things, but I have no doubt LaF will rebound because your core is so strong. Rebound isn't even the right word, because it's just a given that one loss and some bad PR won't keep you down. Anyone who thinks otherwise is foolish.

Though I have to admit I'm pleased to see LaF taken down a peg.

I was going to respond, Pang, to the posts where you oversimplified the PDM/LaF suicider conflicts and called it "the stupidest thing I've seen in EE yet," but that conversation is so tired that it would be gratuitous even for this thread.

Also, re dagga:


So true! Seems like you're keeping him around just so you can point and whine, "everyone's being unreasonable about me and LaF! dagga is the mouthpiece of SOL!" Just ban him already.

I saw 6 LGs from LaF on SOL, including 2 LGs inside 24 hrs (up to 3 LGs if timeframe is extended to 48 hrs), and 2 RoRs, and another LG under 48 hrs after the RoRs

if thats what you do to your friends

SOL was never our friends, if they were they wouldn't have continually refused to pact us even though they were signing formal pacts with half of the other alliances on the server.

Sounds about right. No use coming on here and complaining about how they're 'bad friends' then, I guess.

good to see a LaFer denying another LaFer :D

hive mind self-destruct!

I actually think their two posts back one another up...

well I thought Pang thought SOL is a friend, thus 6 hits won't cause a war, while H4xOr is saying SOL is 'never a friend', thats what I understand :P and Pang was trying to spread a message that SOL is a 'bad friend'

Pang is saying they were two-faced and only pretending to be a friend.
H4 is saying that despite what they said, they were not friends, because if they were their actions would have supported their words.

not that this is an excuse, but when you are a war alliance who has netted what 3-4 times in your history, and with the shrinking membership base of coarse everyone's turn is going to come up. I don't think that it means that you are not friends, or enemies, as you could easily be on the same side next set. It has to be hard for SOl leaders to produce war every set. With LAF's great war performances in the past few sets any good war alliance wants to be tested.

Detmer nailed my intentions, however, I can't speak for H4.

Let's Rectify and make a few statements as a SOL representative.


Dagga is a SOLer(Member) not a representative of SOL.

Praetor, Bart, Steeps and myself are the only ones who can publically speak for the Sons of Liberty or represent our tag as an alliance. However you'll hardly find Bart or Steeps doing so(publically speaking).


As for the meanings of this war. They are beyond being or not being friends. This war had multiple reasons whom were obviously stated in our war dec. Another goal SOL tried to achieve is promoting warring over ingame reasons (in this case retal policy disputes).

Although in general SOL as a pure warring alliance understands that this is not always possible we hope other alliances will follow our example and also strive for such wars. Specially when this set proves, it usually provides a well needed activity spark for any alliance in such a war.

As for winning this war I'll take a paragraph out of the SOL philosophy which is posted for all SOL members to live and play by.

"Other alliances strive to win, but forget to understand that the path to victory is just as important as the victory itself. Ie, not only are we achieving victory, but complete victory, victory along the path and at the destination."
- The SOL Philosophy.

Note: I do not post because I am stating we planned this set to war LaF :-) as some LaFfers like to believe.
I post this with the purpose hoping of trying to portray the thought process SOL lives, fights and dies by.

Any alliance FRs wanting to discuss our ideas, goals and purposes for this war can do so by contacting the above mentioned SOL representatives. We will not deal with Foreign relations or political related issues at a leadership level on these public boards.


With Regards,
Makinso
-SOL Commander.

*covers his ears*
la la la la la la la

I don't care what's happening behind the scenes and why SOL hit LAF..
I only know I am not getting farmed to the ground and killed like last set... =D

one way of interpreting that could be:

"we chose to implement a retal policy designed so that someone somewhen would object to it and create an issues based war for ourselves"

depending on who sol had pacted if it wasnt just laf left out that were possible targets they were probably ok with warring a few different options or combinations of options

I like enshula