We have two very divergent sets of play styles that are not mutually compatible.

In order for netters to succeed they need a relatively stable set of circumstances to prevail over the course of a set, regardless of how they choose to netgain. Significant divergence from those circumstances diminishes their playing experience and over time drives them away.

Conversely, the set of circumstance that will still allow fighters to have a successful set can vary widely. Significant divergence does not diminish their enjoyment of the game.

In simple terms, netters need to be able to sustain growth in land and NW without taking a lot of non-productive turns, whereas warring tags can have fun even if they have to restart multiple times or spend half the set as a parking lot. What this leads to is the chess team trying to share the gym with a bunch of dodgeball players. A war tag can essentially ruin a netting tags set in a matter of minutes with impunity, whereas a netting tag has no recourse to dissuade or punish war tags. Its the old joke about trying to wrestle in the mud with a pig - regardless if you are winning or losing, the pig is having more fun.

This is essentially what happened when TSO decided to drive ETFT off of the server, set after set TSO went after all of the netting tags that were not politically in bed with TSO. Even the sets when the netters won the war, they still did not get to net so the victory was hollow. The next set, back to war. This ultimately led to a mass exodus of netters and warrers. At some point, the mods stepped in with a bandaid solution that led to the current state of the server.

Now, once upon a time in a game called Earth2025, there were lots and lots of players (both real and fabricated) that played in a variety of alliances who all had different objectives and play styles. This large number of players allowed both warring and netting alliances to have the circumstances they wanted to succeed MOST of the time. This large number of alliances also made diplomacy a viable option. Even if diplomacy failed and the large pool of players failed to prevent you from falling outside of your desired playstyle - it was generally only for a short time. During most sets, netters competed with netters, and fighters competed with fighters - the dodgeball and chess Venn diagrams did not overlap very much. As the game has shrunk, these two circles have gotten pushed closer and closer to the same axis.

The problem with these two playstyles is that they don't really overlap - one overlays the other. Hitting chess players (one in particular) with dodge balls is fun. Getting your chess pieces knocked on the floor is not fun. As more and more chess players leave, the dodgeball players discover playing in an empty gym with the same 3-4 dodgeball players is not very much fun so they leave too. After a while, the gym starts emptying out and the smaller population becomes increasingly unsustainable.

I have no solution to offer here. Extinction is a natural process and it is a necessary part of evolution, as populations grow smaller their extinction becomes more imminent. I don't think is is a great deal of impetus within the community or within the dev team to radically change the way the game is played, and I am ok with that. I just think its important that everybody understands that what we have here is not a 'rules' problem, its an environmental problem. We have a small number of predators and prey crowded together on a very small island, and all of them have the option of swimming away any time they want. What we need to focus on his trying to get along and have as much fun as we can without ruining each others games until the island is no longer habitable. Maybe, the last person to leave could put up a nice statue before they go. ;)

all of that and no reference to rock?
wasted time.

So true.

Well articulated.

I love lamp

fixed your typo.

hmmmm not sure if thats fixed or just confusing as dunno what hamp is :S

It does seem unsustainable when one type of player's enjoyment can completely destroy another's :/

While I disagree a lot on how we reached this point I do mostly agree with the state of the server.

My compromise, such as it was, when forming Villains was to not bother the other established tags while reacting with kills for even 1 hit in return. This led to a great many early wars as people tried to mess with us and very few over the last few sets. There have been times where we grabbed some of the smaller unknown tags and also times when tags would hit us and we would only retal but for the most part that is still our policy.

I don't see tags changing their ways of doing things though. Either things will drift to a more alliance like setup where there are more arranged wars or people will continue to pick fights with the netting tags because they make the biggest targets where the most damage is done.

1:kill, sounds familiar.

i agree on almost every count

but should we stop playing dodge ball because of how much they love their chess matches?

but should we stop playing chess because of how much they love their dodgeball matches?

exactly... thing is we arent asking anyone to stop playing chess while we constantly have to put up with you fluffing about our ballgame.


who is the bigger asshole?

there are some chess players that leave the table from set to set and play dodgeball btw. while pretty much none of the dodgeball folk wanna even learn how the chess pieces move

I'm much more accurate with a sinker than a dodgeball

Speaking as a netter, you're not asking them to stop playing chess; you're forcing them to..

In this metaphor, normally the chess players wouldnt even want to play chess in the gymnasium at the same time.

Or if they were any good they would learn to play blindfold chess.

it takes considerably less skill to kick down a sandcastle than to build it, and this is coming from someone who is a pro castle kicker. expecting the netters to build stronger castles just so you can keep kicking is only going to end in you with nothing left to kick but yourself.

your analogies are as biased as they are flawed.

his server has the same problems every other server has, the only difference is this server isnt allowed to police itself. and the mods seem to think that they shouldnt be required to do much because people should just follow the rules. it doesnt work like that.

How are you not allowed to police yourselves? Yes, you can't have a 10v5 gangbang anymore, but that should never have been allowed from the outset. But please, tell me how the rules are limiting people?

Mrford- this server has been policing itself. It just isn't policed equally.

#46 policed by villianz
#119 policed by villianz
#8 policed by villianz

They were all attacking xBaDx and Villianz policed. Rybka was getting suicided by 3 countries in which they all killed with no police.

clans should be able to band together for the sole ntention of killing a trouble making tag.

if your tag pisses off enough people to get gang banged, then you should be allowed to be murdered.

the original problem was one clan with 5 tags. i dont see a problem with 2 legit different tags killing the same asshole clan. that isnt allowed, so the server cant police itself.

on the alliance server, there are no rules against 2 CLANS, not tags but CLANS, rom killing one trouble making clan. that is the server policing itself.

as this server sits now, the netters have no power to band together and fight for their right to net. they just have to take it when a war tag decides they are bored. that is why people are leaving.

as for policing equally, you have no Foreign Relations skills celphi. that is the reason for the inequality. not a grand conspiracy theory.

politics used to be a large part of this game, now it is worthless. some clan can fluff all over you and you cant rally support to do fluff about it. you just ave to take it and maybe do something about it next set. it is an environment that encourages asshole play and surprise fluff moves.

Perhaps they just don't like you and your autistic math. Are you trying to get rules changed so you are not punished for being an outcast?

@mrford:

I have PR skills, I just prefer not to be anyone puppet. If this situation occured just to me, then fine, everyone could argue that it's an isolated event. But, it happened to Reckless too.

How come when Reckless had issues with xBaDx that suddenly Dissident becomes involved in their 5v5 politics?

Not only does he question ICON's motives against xBaDx in an agressive matter, Dissident goes a step further by making a thread to defame ICON. I mean, why? It's not his clan, it's none of his business. But I know why.

Now had Reckless been some new guy to EE then I guarantee after that post, the BIG-5 would be making strategic PS/SS & arbitrary policing to make it harder for their clan.

you do not have PR skills.

Celphi, we went to war with ICON because of Reckless's behaviour. Nothing to do with bad.

@Mrford:
Your opinion shrug. You're entitled to it.

Mrford "clans should be able to band together for the sole ntention of killing a trouble making tag."

That's FFA. Not TEAM. The server is meant to be 5v5. I don't get it. This server has the most fluff talkers but they can't handle their business with just 5. Maybe the TEAMs should be expanded to like 15 people per team.

@Dissident:

So why did you even mix yourself in their dispute? ICON missiled xBaDx not Elders. Why make a post defaming them? Why interogate Reckless for his actions against xBaDx, when it's not your clan?

the server was never ment to be 5v5. it was ment to be comprised of 5 member tags. no where when this server was created did they say wars were only allowed to be 5v5. that is stupid. the size of the clan was limited, not the way they can play. stop making fluff up, you wernt even playing. you dont know. clans are allowed to have defensive pacts on every server. they are allowed to take care of annoying tags. team should be no different. the mods are just lazy as fluff.

that was abused when clans came over and had multiple tags. the mods didnt do fluff for years, and when they did they made some stupid rules and disappeared. fluff got out of control.

and you being fluffty in the FR department is not an opinion. you provide support for the fact every single day.


and the size of the tag doesnt matter. when tags are the same size the team that gets the FS has the advantage every time. that encourages tactics that make people resent each other even more.

use some damn logic, and stop acting like an either/or asshole.

I'm referencing to the present Mrford. And right now, the server is meant to be 5v5.

My approval rating on TEAM doesn't determine my PR abilities.

you said ment to be. not is. the only reason it is limited to 5v5 now is because jackasses cant follow the rules, and it is killing the g server faster than before the rules were implemented.

you are the most retarded smart person i have ever met. seriously. how are you this stupid?

you also act like you know everything when you have only been here for 2 years. your ignorance and your either/or attitude are the reasons you keep doing and saying stupid fluff. you need to understand that.

popularity and your tag dying has everything to do with PR skills. it is the only clan server where you have a visual role and you do nothing but attract problems.

Don't add time to my time playing. It's been 1 year.

I don't have to be around for years to know what the problems are. I guess you're suggesting we should use politicians who have been in politics for years to solve our problems in the USA. You must <3 Hillary then...

look at you not understanding once again.

classic celphi.

you need to understand the root problems before you can fix them. you dont.

i am literally taking the side of the clan that just killed my t5 netting country once again.

that should tell you something about how much of a jackass you are.

5 whys always help. Guess they don't teach RCA at tard school.

@Mrford:

I honestly don't care which side you take. That's completely irrelevant. You've already diss'd all the netting clans you've been with for being poor organizers, so it really doesn't mean much that you're ditching your team.

lol. it is amazing how little comprehension skills you have.

every netting team on this server is poorly organized when compared to a war tag. they dont sit in IRC talking about how to stock. your limited knowledge of how this game actually works lets you down once again.

stop trying so hard, sit back, and learn. acting like you know what you are doing before you learn results in the reputation you currently have.

@Mrford:

You know all the problems & you've been here for decades yet, the envirnoment continues to get worse. You've had plenty of chances to be a moderator or a real contributer to making this game better but you prefer to be the cancer of the game. Nothing you contributes helps. Nothing. You're great at telling people why THEIR ideas fail, but you Ford, have 0 solutions. Nothing. All that experience about this game, all those chances and you've done nothing to help the game improve.

you have no idea what i have contributed to this game. the players i have trained and helped, the massive clans i have lead and helped lead, the time i have spent talking to qzjul and testing things with him on the alpha servers, the time i spent basically building the wiki. i choose to help people in an environment that isnt the troll heavy game forums. maybe you should do the same.

once again you speak about things you know nothing about and look like a dumbass.

at least you are consistent.

You keep referrencing to the past. Are you still helping Qzjul? Are you still training in TKO? Are you still building Wiki? The past doesn't need our help, the present does. I'm offering ideas for TEAM's future, you only contribue why every idea fails. Of all people, there should be a single post detailing a solution for fixing TEAM. A realistic fix & how to go about it. Instead you prefer to remind us how long you've been playing and what you've done in the past. Tella asked the community how to make the server better & I have yet to see anything from you detailing any solutions.

you are the one who brought up my contributions, not me.

your suggestions are discredited by everyone, not just me

i have posted what i think should happen

i answer any game related question i see asked

you know nothing about why i dont edit wiki anymore, so dont act like you do. it has quite a bit to do with why i will never be a mod again.


what do you do that helps so much more than that? all you do is rile people up and get assbattles going with your tard logic and inflammatory posts.

*yawn*

Celphi, FFS, STFU. you are wrong and Ford is right, quit trying to rewrite history that you were never a part of. We were here in the beginning, it was never a 5v5, it was just teams.

Without diplomacy, this game is just mindless xerg rushes. That's the worse part of the spirit rules - they outlaw the best part of the game. What's the fun of being treacherous alone?

Let us pact, let us do FA again, we promise we won't let it go back to mkr1-5 vs tso1-7. We give up, we are reformed. Don't let celphi win and get even more stupid fluffing rules piled on top of the stupid rules we already have. None of the people that wrote the spirit rule ever even played Team.

Again, I'm not referring to the past. I'm talking about the present & future.

that isnt what that post by tella says.

how do you misinterpret EVERYTHING.

independent teams of 5 members doesnt mean they cant fight together or have pacts. it means you cant have a clan of 20 tagged as elders1 eldser2 eldsrs3 elders 4. THAT WAS THE PROBLEM.

it is that stmple. stop making it not.

Ugh, here I go again, agreeing with archaic. This is so unfortunate for me.

That doesn't even make sense. What is the difference between a clan named elders1 & elders2 vs Elders & xBaDx fighting together? It's still the same issue. I've been wrong in the past for interpreting Tella's comments before, but I find it highly unlikely Tella currently allows two independant teams to fight together.

you are as wrong as you always are.

it is a pretty simple difference. one apparently too complex for your brain to differentiate.

if LaF and MD team up to fight another tag, are they the same tag? or are they separate tags working together to fight a common enemy?

the next set they go about their way, because they are separate tags.

it is called foreign relations, the thing you know nothing about because you have the social skills of a fluffing cactus.


also, no one ever said it was currently allowed. why do you always have to put words into other peoples mouths? we said it was the way this server was INTENDED, and that is the way it should go back to. fluffing read man. read.

I'm reading, but you're selective reading. Don't blow a head gasket, lol.

except that wasn't the way it WAS (past tense, as in before)