as you figured out, when i made hits last set, they were bottomfeeds and i was giving off over 350 acres per hit on retals. so all good there.

want to see a real trash bag?
this guy making topfeeds and only giving off 150 land or so. granted he'll give off a bit more now, but this is true trash play:
http://www.eestats.com/express/country/102

lol this rat even topfed ebert for 1000 acres and when ebert retalled back he got 97 acres.
i hope his dr wears off and a few more guys get big fat retals in on him then he's deleted

he's not even in gdi. kill him!

definitely, a case for separating out the retal/LG type DRs from the war type DRs...

Maybe the programmers can add in a drType and separate them in the code...

another funny thing about this guy is that he was put in DR by people he multi tapped. that set when nuk harassed me, I was in temporary DR by some random freak landgrabbing me.
so nuk, i hope you are reporting this guy big time since you misreported me (which is btw, why i wasn't deleted ... didn't remotely break any rule)

Currently, players don't LG other players at war because the returns aren't worth it. If you change that, you'll become everyone's landfarm everytime you went to war.

Each player in massive DR can't produce crap. The best response to losing land to a DR player is nothing. Let them stockpile a bunch of land that they'll never be able to use. I think so many players miss the damage of what below 80% population does.

The more excited you become about it, the more some players will continue to do it, just to piss you off. The only thing you're accomplishing is attracting more players to do it.

Tella already explained that is not DR abuse. You have to be coordinating for it to be DR abuse.

lol - you have a vested interest here. you made a big (and failing) post about a DR strategy and you literally were laughed at by multiple players. if tella suggests what capital domination is doing (5:1 jet to turrets, randomly topfeeding players after being put in DR by his own reckless actions) is not DR abuse, then we simply need to speak to QZ and get the rules changed.

further to that, your whole basis hinges upon him not coordinating it. in my opinion, and lots of others opinions, not joining gdi + farming non bots out of nowhere = surefire way to get put in DR.
this player knows how to play, he knew what he was doing, so therefore he knew he'd be in DR.

further - dr abuse or non dr abuse, whatever you want to call all of this nonsense, has been so deeply prevalent on this server that no post - especially an objective one, is going to spur more of it. that's another certainty.

it's pretty senseless to suggest that me posting about different types of DR abuse so that we can all have an honest discussion about it, is actually going to bring more DR abusers to express.

stop being such a contrarian.

your posts were useless in this thead

I'm not looking for success or failure with my posts. I just post the facts.
Having 5:1 or even 5:0 is irrelevant. DR abuse requires coordination. So opinions really don't apply here. That's the rules. (ref 1)

Sources:
(ref 1) http://www.earthempires.com/...-about-36303?t=1433294931

Not if the attack gains ind DR are different for retails this is alreay established porposal.

ok, like many others have seen before me, probably best not to engage you when you are acting like a broken record.
this is a game we are all part of. we can all help make changes.
i am going to continue to open conversation about potential changes that could help gameplay.

keep sticking to the "rules manual" but ya, we all get that. some of us want change

http://earthempires.com/...omment-15332?t=1376854014

can't go there until we have some consensus, earf. hence the attempt at an honest open dialogue that celphi tried to diffuse which imo can only be because of his post of the failed strategy idea for dr abuse (or non abuse)

I don't mind my ideas failing, Vic. That's why they're called 'ideas'. I'll check out that post earf, thanks.

well said celphi, I myself have been situations where people in Dr top feed me. suc k it up.. it's the game mechanics! if you don't like it. don't play the game.

Vic, don't be too harsh on cocaine.. I know we both love them. "P

i don't know whether or not you *mind* it celphi, i'd imagine like you said, you don't mind it ... but i am trying to find some reason why you'd try to derail an honest attempt at dialogue that could yield some really nice little adjustments that would enhance gameplay without opening up any new abuse loopholes. so it was an obvious red flag to me when it seemed like more bias was present in your post than your usual substance, but i'll take your word on this one.

in general these little things could be changed with one line of code and could make a lot of players really happy. i know quite a few players that left express because of what they felt was DR abuse that was not being treated as such, and those players, all good netters and good for competition, would come back if there was some insulation to #55's dr topfeeds

lmao,
1. rich is cocaine.
2. rich is the biggest DR abuser in this game and if the rules were changed a lot of his past DR abuse finishes in express would be deleted :p

so total bias at it's finest :)
carry along richmond

I personally like the idea of a player being able to play a villian on the server.

i have no problem with rich playing the villain lol, that's pretty true to his person :)

@earf:
It appears those changes were meant to happen over two years ago but never materalized. With the addition of the bot project, I doubt those changes will ever occur.

ITS even better now with the bot project. Cant hit same bot 5 time without losing GDR.

Yes, I agree it's better.

I explained it poorly.- I meant to say: With the introduction of the bot project, there will not be enough time to program DR changes as well.

Find me a set that I won with DR abuse
http://www.earthempires.com/profile/13009/express

h2o is right, he dont win with DR abuse, he just fluffs up top coutrys with it when hes doing bad lol

i just got drilled.. pretty annoying.

EDIT: But not against the rules.

the thing about the h2o (same guy as "rich") style of play is he just goes so so aggressive that most sets he doesn't finish, but when he does, it's a huge score because of the super aggressive play :p but i think 4 out of 5 resets he plays like that, he gets ab'ed and abandons country. it's an interesting style and it definitely can get some wins the odd sets when you outrun ABers

also h2o, i said finishes, i didn't say wins ;)

This is the best commie round. I could score 60m in this market easyily

I do not usually hit a bot five times, but missed this change. Can someone address or send link in a PM to me...don't want to hijack the thread. Thanks.

I linked it just 5 ppoosts above the one you quoted lol. However it is old proposed rule change from 3 years ago that they mods never followed through

too bad #20 lashed out, we might otherwise have started getting some land back :D

it's pretty simple in my mind

1. if a person owning Country B is retaling a LG made against them by Country A, and they never attacked Country A then the only applicable DRs are LG DRs. (this handle a country at war taking advantage of their own DRs against countries having nothing to do with their war.)

2. if a person owning Country B is LGing country A in heavy DRs and said country A never attacked Country B then all DRs apply. (this handles LGing or taking advantage of a country at war, or other players taking advantage of a player who may have been suicided on.)

3. if country A uses GS/BR/AB against country B then any subsequent LG made by Country A against country B is calculated at full DR. (this handles countries that would suicide on another country over a LG, expecting full land after making multiple war hits... they could still do their LGs first to get land, and then the war run.)

mFrost

i'd pretty much agree with Frosties take on it all, i think that sounds sensible and would be an easy code change. those changes would make gameplay pretty damn awesome

Declare @offCountryID as INT
Declare @defCountryID as INT
Declare @warHit as INT
Declare @lgDR as INT
Declare @fullDR as INT
Declare @drCalc as INT
Declare @defLandGrabCount as INT
Declare @offLandGrabCount as INT

BEGIN TRAN
/** check for war hits made by offense **/

Begin

Select @fullDR = fullDR, @lgDR = lgDR from countries where offCountryID=@offCountryID

if exist(Select ah.defCountryID, ah.attackType
from attackHistory ah inner join countries c on countryID=@defCountryID
where ah.offCountryID=@offCountryID and ah.attackType in ('GS','BR','AB','NM','CM','EM'))


SET @warHit=1 -- is true
SET @drCalc = @fullDR

if not exist(Select ah.defCountryID, ah.attackType
from attackHistory ah inner join countries c on countryID=@defCountryID
where ah.offCountryID=@offCountryID and ah.attackType in ('GS','BR','AB','NM','CM','EM'))

SET @warHit = 0 -- is false

End

/**

count of LGs between offense and defense country
if the two counts are equal then offending country landgrab is considered a new landgrab
if defending country made more LGs against offense country then LGs until equality is reached are considered retal
i.e.
@defLandGrabCount = 4 -- these are landgrabs against offense country
@offLandGrabCount = 4 -- these are landgrabs against defending country
@defLandGrabCount - @offLandGrabCount = 0 -- current land grab is consider new

@defLandGrabCount = 4 -- these are landgrabs against offense country
@offLandGrabCount = 3 -- these are landgrabs against defending country
@defLandGrabCount - @offLandGrabCount = 1 -- current land grab is consider retal

**/

If @warHit = 0 -- the following does not apply to countries a player is at war with!!
Begin

-- (count of LGs made by defending country against offense country)

select @defLandGrabCount = count(attackHistoryID)
from attackHistory ah inner join countries c on countryID=@offCountryID
where ah.defCountryID=@defCountryID and ah.attackType in ('SS','PS'))

-- (count of LGs made by offense country against defending country)

select @offLandGrabCount = count(attackHistoryID)
from attackHistory ah inner join countries c on countryID=@defCountryID
where ah.offCountryID=@offCountryID and ah.attackType in ('SS','PS'))

/** (count of warhits made by defending country against offense country this is to close the loophole of countries using warhits instead of LGs, and possibly thinking these cannot be retaled. A player can technically turn this country into a personal landfarm as long as they do not war hit them back until equality is reached. NOTE: this is inside the @warHit=0 for the offense country meaning the offense country has not attacked defending country with warhits. This advantage disappears as soon as @warHit = 1 or true) **/

select @defWarHitCount = count(attackHistoryID)
from attackHistory ah inner join countries c on countryID=@offCountryID
where ah.defCountryID=@defCountryID and ah.attackType in ('GS','BR','AB','NM','CM','EM'))

-- if less than or equal to zero then it is considered a new landgrab defending country does not have outstanding retals owed

if (@defLandGrabCount+@defWarHitCount) - @offLandGrabCount <=0
begin
SET @drCalc = @warDR
end

-- if greater than zero then it is considered a retal defending country has outstanding retals owed

if (@defLandGrabCount+@defWarHitCount) - @offLandGrabCount > 0
begin
SET @drCalc = @lgDR
end
End

Print 'drCalc = ' + @drCalc

END TRAN

just a quick rough draft at a SQL Stored Procedure to calculate the DRs -- would need to be tested/debugged and realigned to actual tables and fields. -- but it provides the basic psuedo code to make it a reality.

mFrost

Buy more turrets

+1

Shut the fluff up rock lopster you peace of stupid trash. Thats the most ignorant idiot thing but of course you say it since you were just abusing this mechanic like classless garbage Turrets cant stop a jetter with 1.5 PS bonus. Plus even if it is my fault for getting hit I should still have the possibility to retal and get my land back and not be blocked by DR crap so first. But I cant because of mechanic you like to abuse so fluff off with your are victim blaming bullfluff or Ill have your ass on a platter

I've always viewed mixing DBA and programming into one as taboo. In any event, Qzjul uses almost exclusively PHP.

+2

-3

I can see this logic coming from commies :p --- hell as a techer I would say buy more weapons tech, and use it as a bonus in both attacking and defending :D

sigh... perhaps next time i just BR or GS the country into a state of Detah myself

/me thinks Celphi is just afraid of such a change actually occurring :p

@mFrost:
nah- dba programming has too many limitations. It's great for small projects; but, on larger projects are you going to give your entire programming team access to your entire database? I hope not.

Obviously Nuk don't give a fluff...

Hasn't even bothered posting on this thread yet....

lol, I just programmed an SP without ever having seen the EE db... with a proper data dictionary the scripts can be written and applied thru an SDLC without giving access to the DB.

would you give access to all your source code to a programmer so they can program a few functions. Perhaps we can also give them access to the production web server and app server?

In the large environment I worked in the programmers had a development environment and when their code was complete it was deployed to a QA environment, followed up by a Staging /UAT environment for user acceptance testing. Only after the endusers/stakeholders signed off did the code ever get deployed to production servers. Those deploying the code were admins and config administrators, they rarely care or even understand what the code does.

Have you ever followed the IBM RUP or perhaps an Agile process.. ??

mFrost

@mFrost:
If you're referring to a DR change- then you completely omitted earf's post about it. There's no reason to use brain cells on a subject which already has a solution. The solution just hasn't been programmed in yet. If you're looking for a two year delayed project to suddenly occur, then I would suggest posting code which is in PHP.

I have no interest in changing it, so I'm not going to post a code to fix it. To me, the top 10 players bottom-feed the weaker players 5x per 2hrs with nothing to lose. I like that they have a terrorizing jetter rampaging their lands. If you don't want to be a target- then don't get land fat.

As I've said on a different thread- I don't believe Qzjul has switched to PHP 5 yet, so he wouldn't be able to use MS SQL. In all likiness, he uses MYSQL.

@mFrost:

Your discussion about IBM's belief system seems like apples and oranges to the discussion. RUP / OpenUP are opinionated strategies on how to make software 'correctly'. I'm not quite sure the connection you're making here.

fluff right off, earf, you ignorant little toad.

That is the beauty of a stored procedure it does not matter what language you use for your front end it can be, PHP, ASP Classic, ASP.Net, Cold Fusion, Java, Python, Ruby, the list is endless. As long as the language can connect to the db and call an SP you have one place to change your transactional logic vs. 20, if kept to something that is language specific. SQL also allows for very large projects to exist and remain maintainable over long periods of time.

I was taught, mixing SQL code with the web code was a big taboo, especially in n-Tier applications.
We could layer it out further and create a data object to call the SP and then pass the output to transactional function object to do the comparison functionality, then the SP is purely select and output. The front end would not care it just displays results.

-----------------------
to actually program it I would need to understand how the current code works, including input and output parameters.

btw there is nothing in the fix that would stop an All-Jetter from hitting the Top 10 at will, what you want is for this same all jetter to be in heavy DRs so those being attacked have no recourse, other than to kill said country. What you want is countries that can attack with impunity and laugh at those they are attacking ... avoiding the responsibility for actions taken. I have a lot more respect for someone who bottom feeds me and stays out of my reach or accepts my retal for whatever it is than someone who basically stands there taunting, you will never get your land back ...

as for waiting it out, there is no guarantee the player will ever come out of DRs, due to the method they are playing the country. Also losing 1000+ acres and having to wait 360-720 turns before getting it back is like telling someone on another server they need to wait a week or 2 weeks before retaling their hit. the 720 turns occurs if the player is on full turns and the attack happened a few minutes ago. so they play their turns and then have to wait a whole other day before retalling.

2015-06-05 23:49:55 PS DeathFromAbove (#1) R Place (#85) 1405A (1995A)

looks like SOMEBODY needed to "Buy more turrets"

2015-05-01 20:48:15 PS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 269A (281A)
2015-05-01 17:45:16 PS Rock Lobster (#78) Palid Thanatos (#38) 480A (646A)
2015-05-01 17:07:13 PS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 132A (138A)
2015-05-01 13:40:02 PS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 87A (91A)
2015-05-01 13:24:55 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 65A (67A)
2015-05-01 13:24:35 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 81A (85A)
2015-05-01 13:23:59 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 106A (110A)
2015-05-01 11:01:21 PS Rock Lobster (#78) DeathFromAbove (#1) 1439A (2052A)
2015-05-01 09:29:50 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) DH
2015-05-01 09:16:37 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 51A (53A)
2015-05-01 08:52:39 PS Rock Lobster (#78) Vigothseth (#53) 162A (229A)
2015-05-01 08:49:55 PS Rock Lobster (#78) Francois Blackman Harker (#23) 241A (429A)
2015-05-01 08:45:47 PS Rock Lobster (#78) Vigothseth (#53) 207A (302A)
2015-05-01 08:43:48 PS Rock Lobster (#78) Vigothseth (#53) 263A (405A)
2015-05-01 07:58:33 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) DH
2015-05-01 07:56:06 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 47A (49A)
2015-05-01 07:55:36 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 47A (49A)
2015-05-01 07:55:05 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 47A (49A)
2015-05-01 05:44:09 PS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 71A (75A)
2015-05-01 03:36:03 PS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 70A (73A)
2015-05-01 03:27:38 PS Rock Lobster (#78) Gloomy Jupiter (#28) 184A (286A)
2015-05-01 02:12:41 PS Rock Lobster (#78) aye (#63) 421A (713A)
2015-05-01 00:56:24 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) DH
2015-05-01 00:53:02 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) DH
2015-05-01 00:36:40 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 42A (44A)
2015-05-01 00:24:44 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) DH
2015-05-01 00:24:41 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 43A (45A)
2015-05-01 00:24:16 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 43A (45A)
2015-05-01 00:23:48 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 43A (45A)
2015-05-01 00:22:57 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 42A (44A)
2015-05-01 00:20:45 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 43A (45A)
2015-04-30 23:48:15 PS Rock Lobster (#78) Palid Thanatos (#38) 178A (269A)
2015-04-30 23:13:51 PS Rock Lobster (#78) Palid Thanatos (#38) 213A (344A)
2015-04-30 23:12:35 SS aye (#63) Rock Lobster (#78) 64A (66A)
2015-04-30 23:08:04 SS aye (#63) Rock Lobster (#78) DH
2015-04-30 22:44:10 PS Rock Lobster (#78) paintdry (#11) 210A (305A)
2015-04-30 21:44:49 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) DH
2015-04-30 21:33:36 SS Palet Town (#75) Rock Lobster (#78) 47A (49A)
2015-04-30 21:33:30 SS Palet Town (#75) Rock Lobster (#78) 47A (49A)
2015-04-30 21:24:34 PS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 60A (62A)
2015-04-30 21:21:07 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 40A (42A)
2015-04-30 21:20:49 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 40A (42A)
2015-04-30 21:12:14 PS Rock Lobster (#78) Palid Thanatos (#38) 274A (451A)
2015-04-30 20:59:43 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) DH
2015-04-30 20:59:41 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 38A (40A)
2015-04-30 20:59:10 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 38A (40A)
2015-04-30 20:57:28 PS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 61A (63A)
2015-04-30 20:35:22 PS Rock Lobster (#78) This Land (#59) 359A (589A)
2015-04-30 19:41:01 PS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 55A (57A)
2015-04-30 19:02:01 PS Rock Lobster (#78) Palid Thanatos (#38) 436A (685A)
2015-04-30 18:33:01 PS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 51A (53A)
2015-04-30 18:20:01 SS This Land (#59) Rock Lobster (#78) 46A (48A)
2015-04-30 17:40:38 SS This Land (#59) Rock Lobster (#78) DH
2015-04-30 17:35:45 PS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 49A (51A)
2015-04-30 17:29:28 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 36A (38A)
2015-04-30 17:06:18 SS Palet Town (#75) Rock Lobster (#78) DH
2015-04-30 17:04:18 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) DH
2015-04-30 17:00:22 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) DH
2015-04-30 16:58:08 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 86A (93A)
2015-04-30 16:54:24 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 111A (122A)
2015-04-30 16:41:45 PS Rock Lobster (#78) Palet Town (#75) 591A (839A)
2015-04-30 16:28:32 SS This Land (#59) Rock Lobster (#78) 81A (95A)
2015-04-30 16:19:16 SS This Land (#59) Rock Lobster (#78) 124A (153A)
2015-04-30 15:57:44 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 161A (193A)
2015-04-30 15:29:43 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) DH
2015-04-30 15:23:52 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 218A (282A)
2015-04-30 15:23:51 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 263A (357A)
2015-04-30 15:23:50 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 316A (448A)
2015-04-30 15:23:49 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 325A (462A)
2015-04-30 15:23:45 SS paintdry (#11) Rock Lobster (#78) 336A (479A)

sigh.......... Buy more turrets