Originally
posted by
Pang:
Oh, tan tan tan....
oh pang pang pang.... (you told me not to selectively respond!)
you are not only misremembering yourself, but you're spin has made me want to thoroughly berate you for it.
So I've been misremembering since this whole ordeal began years ago? Because I haven't changed my side of the story one single bit.
you refused to pay reps, thus, you did not pay reps. I don't know why you're trying to focus on semantics as the core of your argument.
But you OMIT the fact that most of those reps were paid off and you imply that I completely refused from the beginning, which is simply not true.
if you sign a contract that says you'll pay 200,000 in damages for carelessly burning someone's house down (because you are uninsured and the home owner wins in court), then pay 5,000 and realize "hey I don't want to pay 200,000 in damages! it's not worth that much to me" you're going to find yourself in court again.
It's more like we paid $160,000 rather than just $5,000. I seriously can't believe how much you are distorting this. If you still have the threads saved, go back and verify that we paid every single person except one (who admittedly was still owed a lot).
that is refusing to pay reps. there were lots of reps on the table at that point, and we planned on collecting every cent, because we lost a TON of stuff to that suicider, and even if the reps had been paid in full by the terms of the pact...
See above point. You are exaggerating how much was left to pay. It was still a hefty chunk, but not nearly this enormously huge figure you hint at.
...we spent over a billion dollars worth of turns, military and the opportunity cost of turns for farmers/cashers (I personally dumped a lot of stock to help break that particular suicider) to kill the guy
We were small at that point and were struggling to get enough members together to organize a KR, as I've explained to you before, and you killed that guy very quickly and didn't even inquire if anyone was online to help kill it. In fact, I think I was sleeping when you killed it. Not our fault. Stop complaining about it.
you also may remember that you blamed LaF for the suicider, both because we controlled RD to hit you (which was as untrue at that time as it was now) and because we have countries which are able to be suicided.
No, I blamed your PACT details for the suicider. Legion was the suicider. His EXACT reason was because he knew that suiciding on LaF would hurt PDM the most because of your pact details. It had nothing to do with RD. If you see him around, go ahead and confirm with him. He told me that was the specific reason why he hit LaF, and no other.
YOU also seem to forget that you were an absolute douche to us during that whole episode and lit a fire under SS to treat you like a pile of crap because of your attitude towards him and LaF.
I agree, I was being childish about the whole affair, but I never stooped to insulting your leaders, either. So now you are justifying the resulting childish behavior your leaders exhibited? Way to take the high road. And, might I add, the whole time I was fluffing and whining, we were STILL paying the reps. I didn't cancel the reps up until the very point where SS started flinging insults around.
I told you to deal with me up to the point that it was obvious that you weren't going to pay.
You are remembering wrong. We were paying the entire time up until I stopped paying out.
the reason SS treated you like crap was because you told him it was our fault we got suicided, brought up untrue RD connections (RD was killing LaF countries during most of the end of 1a.... no one ever remembers that :p we did not have good relations at all and if RD hadn't been bot driven at that point, we would have had to make a hard decision about what to do) and likened our playing to some weird metaphor that made no sense (i forget the metaphor though :p)
His insulting retorts cannot be justified because I told him some stuff that hurt his feelings (lol). And it WAS your fault you got suicided -- see the above point about your pact details.
Don't forget that the pact was signed for mutual reasons -- not as a favour to PDM to abuse as it feels. the pact stopped LaF from grabbing an always under-defended PDM. We abided by that, we expected that PDM would abide by the terms too.
Fair point.
Once again, this is black and white spin.
you act like YOU'RE owed all this respect...
huh?? in regards to what?
...but the bottom line is that you fluffed PDM over with that whole episode -- you got your asses tuned in the first war and then got smoked & farmed in your sour grapes war...
Yeah, I admit, I did fluff PDM over a bit. I am not proud of what happened, and things probably could have been handled a bit better on my side, but I'm not going to let someone get away with abysmal behavior, especially when he's representative of the entire alliance.
...and up to and including a few rounds ago, you believed that the alliance who is suicided is at least as much at fault as the alliance who harboured the suicider.
Thanks for telling me what I believe, but that's not true. I said your pact terms were responsible for that suicider choosing your alliance to suicide on. And it's true. Keep denying it all you want. I'm kind of sick of this Narcissus-complex you guys have. Just keep admiring your pact terms in the mirror whilst willfully denying that they do, in fact, foment suiciding simply because if a suicider wants to hurt the alliance they are in, they know to suicide LaF to do maximum damage.
I don't know if this belief has changed now, but I certainly hope it has. I got some good metaphors here, but it's too soon to use them after that shooting :(
People die every day from gun-related violence, and worse. Millions of children in Africa die every year due to not being able to prevent easily treatable illnesses, including diarrhea. Given that perspective, it is constantly inappropriate to make any sort of joke out of really anything. So you may as well fling your metaphors with reckless abandon. ;)
to see you come here and act like PDM is some kind of progressive alliance when it comes to suiciders goes against everything PDM has stood for for many years.
We are simply offering money to other alliances to kill suiciders for us. Stop trying to turn this issue into something it isn't.
case and point: a few rounds ago in EE, after PDM was destroyed by NA but NA got killed by everyone for cheating and PDM needed to waste half a round, a PDM'er suicided on LAF.
AND WHAT ISN'T SAID BY PANG IS WE HELPED KILL HIM, REPS WERE PAID AND HE WAS BOOTED! But let's ignore facts here for the sake of mud-slinging lulz.
the episode spiraled out of control within PDM (apparently because we felt we were wronged and PDM should have done more to help), and LaF was forced to kill roughly 6 PDM countries and restarts while untagged, after they began opping our countries...
I can't remember exactly how things went down -- might want to ask Balin about this since he was one of the countries that detagged for some reason out of solidarity with no intent to suicide, yet he was killed anyways.
and some PDM'ers who didn't agree with what was going on brought it to our attention to kill anyone who detagged from PDM.
DANCE DAGGA...ERRR...PANG DANCE!
Yes, that PDMer who told you to kill anyone who detags was ME. I brought it to your attention.
There was a movement within PDM to suicide LaF as a whole, which was supported by many leaders -- including some that still lead today.
Yeah, and I put an end to it and kept you and LaF apprised of the situation. So if you are alluding to me, you are forgetting the facts. I was your insider telling you what was going on. You knew about that movement because I told you about it and was working to put an end to it. Once again, you only knew about that because *I* was keeping you up-to-date in an attempt to end years of hostility. And I wasn't very popular at that time in PDM whilst cheerleading for LaF, let me tell you.
I don't remember you even apologizing for your members continually suiciding LaF, regardless of whether there was a pact in place or not.
I can't remember if I did either, but an apology is irrelevant to not only this discussion but to the topic of suiciders in general.
But regardless, you don't have the resume to back up the ego you carry around these boards on this topic, and I don't appreciate the sentiment you've brought to this thread re:LaF.
I dunno even what you're talking about. The reason why LaF is banned is because we know that your price in any bid will be the highest because you'll count every single conceivable cent to kill it, so there's no point in even opening the bidding to LaF. It was actually meant more as a joke.
I do apologize though if LaF feels hurt by it. But that doesn't change the fact that it's true that LaF will ask the most.
ps. don't cherry pick my responses to try and spin things.
I didn't.
pps. if you're going to come to AT and act as the PDM spokesman in chief, maybe you want to change your sig.
I'm not the official spokesman. Detmer has smacked me down privately a few times already and I've had to quickly rescind or edit posts. So I guess you could say I'm the unofficial official spokesman of PDM. :P
