I think I'll try this...let the games begin.

Also, I don't see how going all jets is DR abuse. If a player wants to and sets out from the beginning to grab every player 95% of their net., that's automatically DR abuse,.. yet, Lord Tavarna was 6:1 jets:turrets and that's not considered DR abuse until someone decides to SS him 1000000x.

The point I'm making with DR abuse is: It only becomes DR abuse once a player hits you multiple times. If you maintain your strategy of hitting players 95% of your net, that's considered abuse. Why should a player be tethered to fight whomever uses multiple SS on you? More so a retorical question.

The original rule Pang made was to prevent people from placing their friends in DR to exploit it., not to prevent players from going all jets.

IT does NOT matter because I am telling you its been done.

I told you why it fails all ready. Now I am telling you it has been done.

Here is someone done it five years ago.
http://earthgraphs.com/...trygraph=alive&page=1

In that example: Yes, it's very close, but again, he's not hitting players within 95% of his net. He finished with 15k land and yet:

2011-09-15 13:47 Rambo (#91) Get yer tin foil hat on (#60) PS 88A (+104A)
2011-09-15 13:40 Rambo (#91) KillerfromManiller (#139) PS 131A (+157A)
2011-09-15 11:29 Rambo (#91) A Horde of Angry Beavers (#118) PS 319A (+201A)
2011-09-15 08:20 Rambo (#91) 1TroopGS (#146) PS 235A (+158A)
2011-09-15 07:25 Rambo (#91) Dopenia (#57) PS 246A (+180A)
2011-09-15 04:56 Rambo (#91) cuz i kanistan (#61) PS 261A (+196A)
2011-09-15 04:53 Rambo (#91) I Want To See Your O Face (#37) PS 259A (+172A)

These are all too low of returns. At 15k land, the players in that range would be giving far larger returns. As I posted in the test server example.

Lol! you fluffing ass.

Why bother arguing with selfie? Just walk away earf

Plus DR has significantly changed since then. The land returns that those players got off him wouldn't happen today on EXPRESS.

Lmao

I understand this Earf- If you bottom-feed a player for 300A and allow players to SS you 20-30 times, then yes, it's not beneficial. The idea I'm suggesting is to hit players at the optimial range. 95% of your net. Which would give around 2k land per grab (as I posted in this thread).

95% of this thread is non sense

First off. If im in DR I can hit the player 50% my net and 95% my net both. Doing One wont prevent the other. Neither one gets land back. Second off. This has been done before. Sorry this guy wasnt good enough to have enough networth match grabs for you. Go in the tens of thousand of countrys and find someone else who was better tehn. Point is the same. Third off. I hope you get deleted quickly for intentional DR abuse.

It would be like this: (as tested on test server)
SS May 11, 16:02 d (#146) a (#72) 349 A
SS May 11, 16:02 d (#146) a (#72) 387 A
SS May 11, 16:02 d (#146) a (#72) 398 A
SS May 11, 16:02 d (#146) a (#72) 307 A
SS May 11, 16:02 d (#146) a (#72) 214 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 151 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 109 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 80 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 59 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 43 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 33 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 25 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 20 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 18 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 18 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 18 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 17 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 17 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 17 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 16 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 16 A
SS May 11, 16:03 d (#146) a (#72) 16 A
SS May 11, 16:04 d (#146) a (#72) 16 A
SS May 11, 16:04 d (#146) a (#72) 16 A
SS May 11, 16:04 d (#146) a (#72) 15 A
SS May 11, 16:04 d (#146) a (#72) 15 A
SS May 11, 16:04 d (#146) a (#72) 15 A
SS May 11, 16:04 d (#146) a (#72) 15 A
SS May 11, 16:04 d (#146) a (#72) 15 A
SS May 11, 16:04 d (#146) a (#72) 15 A
SS May 11, 16:04 d (#146) a (#72) 15 A
PS May 11, 16:13 a (#72) b (#144) 693 A (981 Gained)
SS May 11, 16:16 d (#146) a (#72) 35 A
SS May 11, 16:16 d (#146) a (#72) 35 A
SS May 11, 16:16 d (#146) a (#72) 34 A
SS May 11, 16:16 d (#146) a (#72) 34 A
SS May 11, 16:16 d (#146) a (#72) 34 A
SS May 11, 16:16 d (#146) a (#72) 33 A
SS May 11, 16:16 d (#146) a (#72) 33 A
SS May 11, 16:16 d (#146) a (#72) 32 A
SS May 11, 16:16 d (#146) a (#72) 32 A
SS May 11, 16:16 d (#146) a (#72) 31 A
SS May 11, 16:16 d (#146) a (#72) 31 A
SS May 11, 16:16 d (#146) a (#72) 30 A
SS May 11, 16:16 d (#146) a (#72) 29 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 29 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 28 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 28 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 27 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 27 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 26 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 25 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 25 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 24 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 24 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 23 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 23 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 22 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 22 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 22 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 21 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 21 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 20 A
SS May 11, 16:17 d (#146) a (#72) 20 A

PS May 11, 16:43 a (#72) b (#144) 1895 A (2702 Gained)

SS May 11, 16:44 d (#146) a (#72) 64 A
SS May 11, 16:44 d (#146) a (#72) 64 A
SS May 11, 16:44 d (#146) a (#72) 64 A
SS May 11, 16:44 d (#146) a (#72) 64 A
SS May 11, 16:44 d (#146) a (#72) 64 A
SS May 11, 16:45 d (#146) a (#72) 64 A
SS May 11, 16:45 d (#146) a (#72) 64 A
SS May 11, 16:45 d (#146) a (#72) 64 A
SS May 11, 16:45 d (#146) a (#72) 64 A
SS May 11, 16:45 d (#146) a (#72) 64 A
SS May 11, 16:45 d (#146) a (#72) 64 A
SS May 11, 16:45 d (#146) a (#72) 64 A
SS May 11, 16:45 d (#146) a (#72) 65 A
SS May 11, 16:45 d (#146) a (#72) 65 A
SS May 11, 16:45 d (#146) a (#72) 65 A
SS May 11, 16:45 d (#146) a (#72) 65 A

Not PS for 300A. He has to hit a different player each time that's 95% of their net for it to be worth it.

It's not intentional DR abuse. I have to coordinate it with another player to intentionaly place me into DR. Simply running 0 defense and attacking other players 95% of my net is not DR abuse.

Celphi, you should test that in FFA with your own countries so nobody gets asshurt and sends abuse reports and get you purpled ;-)

You have announced here your plan to get in DR and use it for defense in place of turrets. Then you have announced you plan to abuse the DR to grab big land grabs and use the DR so they cant get theiyre land back. You have said repeatively in this thread that the victim of your attack cant get land back, because of the DR. Youve filled this thread with proof of your malice intent.

In FFA, GDI doesn't protect you from BR/GS though, but I've tested it on test server. The system works in a static environment and that's why I posted it here to have other people point out the flaw.

I, for one, have seen this happen before and have seen it fail a lot before as well.

The math, of course, will always point to the one doing the DR abuse. Especially in express where 'most' people do not double tap and do not hit people in DR.

if you are active enough and hopefully not deleted, you can get a lot of land. that's all i'm saying, you can get a lot of land. where that gets you will depend on what you can do with those lands.

@Earf: You've also mentioned 'thousands of people' who have used this idea before me, yet, none have been deleted.

so when you run out of countries to hit in the 95% range

... would you take the risk to hit a country a second time, or would you then just go all-x?

what happens when the DRs wear off?

all jetter is as old as E2025, it was probably the cause of the first war waged, which led to alliances being formed :)

--- Over time alliances won and enforced the no topfeed rules, I will admit they are fun, but the consequences tend to be heavy...

JJ23 and Seth both been deleted for this (if memory serves me correctly) couple years ago.

Here Celphi, read up http://m.earthempires.com/...xpress-16899?t=1419832836

@mFrost: I haven't really thought that part out. I was just exploring this idea.

The major difference between myself and others on this site:
They exploit the game in secret, get a great net and brag. I post my ideas on the forums, knowing full well the criticisms it will get. I've done this from day 1.

Some of you might recall back to when I strategized hitting a player multiple times, and left my troops at 0 on purpose. Knowing a player would eventually try to GS me. He did and then I went about LGing. The end result was a large discussion about DR and Warster ultimately decided it wasn't a deletable offense. I posted prior to the set of my strategy. It's still on the forums as well.

In fact, I have the quote of a veteran player agreeing with me:



It began with Warster saying it was DR abuse to him changing his mind about the definition.

And on that note, Getafix himself was benefiting from high levels of DR a set or two ago.

The rule was put in place to prevent players from saying "hey man, I'm going to hit you 40x so you have a high DR and then you can go around LGing". Of course, in-game, you can't tell if that message was sent or not, so if it appeared as though two people coordinated it, one or both players would be deleted.

The DR abuse rule was never intended to pevent players who wanted to go 100% jets. Just because players see 'free' land and decide to hit me multiple times doesn't mean now I'm a participant in DR abuse.

If I was 100% jets and hit everyone that was 95% of my net the entire set- that's not DR abuse.

However,
If I was 100% jets and hit everyone that was 95% of my net the entire set AND players hit me multiple times with SS- that's suddenly DR abuse.

That makes no sense.

LEEEEEEEROOOOOOY JEEEENKINNNNNNNNNSSSS

It makes perfect sense. Dont look at it autistically, look at it in big picture. Break down the rigid lines and embrace the grey and u will understand.

This was the set in which Celphi was AB'd into DR and then started topfeeeding lots of players. It was argued by some that it was DR abuse. I argued for Celphi, saying that it was DR strategy. The difference between the DR strategy and DR abuse is that DR abuse is intentionally getting into DR through collusion with another player.

The decision was made at that time by the Mods to allow Celphi's actions. That was a significant decision in the rules from a "case law" standpoint.

Everyone is gonna try to leverage DR to their advantage its the dynamics of the game. Only time this should be deletable would be if it was coordinated. Every set I hope some idiot hits me multiple times for fluff gains (Badonka last set) but its luck getting targeted most of the time.

Top feeding seems to be the bigger issue and ignoring DR entirely it is already a good strat. The influx of land has created a multitude of targets most games where the net gain after retal is still huge. Combined with the low D and high stock levels these hits become no brainers at times. Last set I hit a guy with 30min left who had 25k land and 3bil cash but only 6mil turrets no tech. Obviously this is an extreme but many countries that complain about topfeeds bring it on themselves by playing greedy at various portions of the set.

I don't remember what the mods policies are on DR/"DR Abuse"; My opinion has always been that if a mechanic exists that leads to things that are grossly out of line with our intent, then we should adjust that mechanic; though, of course, there's always more things to do on the list than there is time for...

Personally I think doing a jetter like this isn't as effective as attacking and not getting retalled....

Qzjul two things. First is that if your name is pronounced q-z-jull then it rhymes on cuteseagul so I will cal you that now.

Second. cuteseagul.. you are indubitibly correct. It wont be as effective as regular grabs.

HOWEVER. Big however. Its not about how well it works. Imaine playing a country and working hard on it and cellphi pops you for 2000 acres. And, hes in 80 DR because he has 0 defense. He has 0 defense and you can easily hit him back. But you can never get your land back because his abuse of mechanic. His intensional abuse of mechanic,. You are fluffed and your round is fluffed because this guy is abusing DR. Thats the problem. When someone you could retal, makes it impossible to ever get your land back, by intensional abuses of mechanic. Do the right thing. #deleteCellphi

FYI I am Canadian and we pronounce "z" as "zed" ;)

So yes it's pronounced q-z-jul typically, with the z being a decidedly Canadian Zed ;)

80 DR is pretty hard to achieve, even in alliance; But yes, there are reasons we have all sorts of anti-suicider things in the mechanics the last few years; this sort of behaviour is more typically done in alliance...

I fully support earf's movement. #deleteCellphi

- celphi

BAHAHAHAHA. EVEN CELLPHI ADMITS IT

c-e-l-p-h-i supports deleting c-e-l-l-p-h-i. ( I'm using your dashes if that's OK ).

BOTH OF THOSE REEFER TO YOU.

If you are using this to get land in 1/10 of the normal turns needed, then the # of countries you can hit in the 95% range problem is not as bad. However if you are looking to get to 50-60k acres using this then I wish you the best of luck with no double taps in a reset ;)

This being said I still believe you would need to time it extremely well to get any benefit out of it.

As far as game mechanics are concerned, if this is truly unacceptable, i.e. seeing it from a strategy used to negate other players an ability of exacting a proper response to actions taken against them. A simple fix is to simply drop the GDI rule if a player attacks more than x amount of countries in this manner. Retals taken in a 24 hour period would not count against this, but any hit against a country within 95% range while in heavy DRs would.

Your plan would still work, if the hits being made were retals against those who would take advantage of your no defense country. If they were willing to take the risk then the consequences of their own actions is theirs to take. However, going out and hitting an All-x country for 2K acres and using the DRs and GDI as a method of escaping a well deserved response, is not going to sit well with most players. Yes it is a grey line, and a technicality which is allowing you to rob the bank persay, however you need to consider how long is the bank going to allow you to rob them in this manner?

mFrost

THere was supposed to be a change to DR so retals would still get land. A project the men in charge started but never finished.

do harmful spyops get nerfed by GDI too... or could a heavy spy country persay take apart a country using such tactics?

I'm farming him to 0 land

@mFrost:
Spy ops are limited to 3 determental attacks (bomb banks, burn oil, burn bushels) & unlimited informational spy ops until GDI is broken.

To say you can't get your land back- is completely false. You absolutely can. I'd be running 0 defense.

What the fluff is determental mean #lolwut

Detrimental. (typo)

At least I'm not mispelling words which appear one box over. ( ie. celphi )