I've been playing for about a month now, after a long break (10 years or so). Seen ror mentioned on here a few times but didn't know what it was until someone kindly enlightened me in game after I performed one. He dropped a barrage of missles that would have made Truman proud lol. Anyway, guess I don't understand the mentality behind the negative outlook on a ror. If you don't want to get hit back why would you retal on a target that is perfectly capable of hitting back?

Because usually it's a lose-lose move to do so. This person has already demonstrated the ability to hit you back once, hitting them again means either they will hit you again or go to war with you, depending how annoyed they are, so it's usually not worth it.

If you look at how many turns the country that hit you back has, and how well-built their country is, you can try to determine if it's worth it to try to get away with doing a retal on retal them. Maybe some time you will find that it is. Usually it will just get you into trouble though, so you have to decide if you think their retal warrants picking a fight with them.

GDI is built into the game on this server in a way that, if you hit someone twice, they get access to all manner of nasty ops, and you don't get access to those things until they hit you twice... so when you ROR you are giving someone else first shot at you.

Some reasons people may ROR is if they find the retal on them is very late, or if they are annoyed at losing 1000 acres in a retal after they hit for 50 acres, or if they think the other country is all jet and no defense and easy to take mass acres from.

RORing in those situations still will probably get people mad! But those are situations in which some people occasionally get mad themselves and ROR.

tl;dr:

Don't do it unless you want war.

I RoR if the retal is too late. I'm not gonna sit back while they snicker at reaping 1k+ acres for my early 100 acre grab. I'll take my land back and if you wanna go to war with me for it, I'm always ready to rumble :)

This is also a double bluff, because if they decide not to AB you, and RoRoR instead, then the possibility for you to wreck them is opened. If they do nothing, then you do a little victory jig on your new chunk of land.

I mostly retal pretty quickly - I don't like to let fluff fester - and I respond to RoRs (the vast majority of the time) with extreme escalation. I try to take enough of your land that you can't grow enough to hit me again lol

Yeah, I hear you vic. That's my thoughts exactly. And that is exactly what happened to me. I hit him for 70 acres early. He did the retal late and got almost 1200 so I took it back. I will most likely always ror if it's a situation like that. I just think it's funny that people feel they are entitled to retal and have no response. I just don't understand that mind set.

This can also be your fault, I dislike major retals but retals done within 36 hours of my grab are acceptable. Even if I lose 10 times the land. If you hit a player with DR and he retals you for 10 times that is again your fault. If a player I hit retals me 36 hours+ later for max value then im less happy about it.

As much as I see a certain sense of entitlement on this server, the way GDI is here there is a certain entitlement to a single retal. If you ror you're going to break your GDI to that country, and the only way for them to respond at that point is to break their own to you. That opens them up to all nasty kinds of attacks you can do to bring their set down. Its just common sense at that point for them to make sure you won't be bothering them for the rest of the set. Its just the mechanics of this server.

I think pretty much everything people have said so far in here is fine... some people take exception to certain retals, other people point out that the way GDI works, retals are kind of built-in... it's up to you whether you want to risk going to war (and in most cases, you will get war) by doing a ROR. Some people are willing to do that.

RORs bug me when they happen to me, because usually I'll have like 200 more turns than the guy doing the ROR, and I'll be like... Really?

Your welcome

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

thanks! Now I know lol

Good point fry. I just know that if I retal someone and don't want a ror, I make sure I'm large enough that they can't penetrate my defenses. If I retal some at my rank or higher and they are capable of doing a ror successfully, I would expect them to take action. Personally, I play this game to have a little fun and try to beat my own high scores, maybe even go to war for a little more action. If I place top 10 while doing that, cool. If someone grabs me for 1200 acres because I did a 70 acre grab on them 1000 turns earlier, you'd better believe I'm going to try to get it back lol. War is part of the game right? My whole point was just that if you don't want someone doing a ror, then don't retal until you are big enough to defend against it. That's my take anyway.

Every commander has a battle plan till the first shot is fired

Side note, awesome Iron Mike is back this week, don't forget GDI

Awesome mike's too awesome for GDI right :)

I retalled a fool many a times withing minutes........ they had to use their last turns to hit me........... dont care..... hit me too much I light up like a roman candle and or out run your ror. DOES IT REALLY MATTER.

I had someone 2 sets ago say 2 retals cause i top fed. I said better not...... they did it anyway. IF you can pull it off good for you if not better not!!!!!!!!

lets just put it this way i was messing around no care......... rank 2 fininsher hit me without realizing i could retal at any time.

i literally cost him top finish

It's great fun when someone RoRs for a big retal. If you bugger about hitting for 70 acres early you're going to get hit back for hundreds or thousands more often than not. And then you've screwed your own finish. Good plan...

Good plan when you dont care about your own finish.... :P in other words pick a better target.

I don't like that the GDI mechanics tend to favour storing turns and playing a 'delayed set', so as to take advantage of being bottomfed early to make big retals later with very little fear of retaliation.

Which is why I RoR any clown who tries to pull this bs :)

You should also check how many turns countries have played before you hit them... if they have good tech and a lot of turns it probably isn't a good idea to hit them to begin with. I'm always slightly delayed turns because they come in faster than I can play them, but it's not a trick and I'd prefer not to get hit at all. But people do even though it's clearly a bad idea.

yes, even if you have 300 turns on hand, I will still hit you because if u're good enough to get a t3, you wouldn't cash out 200 turns just to retal me, that's just not optimal.

keys to good land grabbing

1. most turns used to date of target
2. little cash or market orders up - if someone has 2b in cash... they can all jet you easily
3. previous attacking behviour - did they retal targets that previously LG'ed? Not at all? Are they warring someone (aka giving up on their set - good target if DR's are not in play)
4. Recent returns of other grabs / DR... is it worth the grab or better to wait until DR goes down
5. Is target a known veteran? if so 10-20x more likely a retal is coming your way. Even if its very much -EV because they are "brand protecting" their country for future sets, etc


Most important of all, take your time, do the math properly and double check it with final verification of targets NW before the hit. Tada, you are bringing in the land.

But there's no way of knowing who's good enough to t3 is there, unless it's a known name, and as Netsquash points out they're almost guaranteed to hit you back.

As for the GDI set up and stored turns whining - its the same 15 turns an hour for everyone - if your strat burns through the turns that's your problem, and it's childish to complain about people stacking them and hitting you later.

No, I wouldn't cash out 300 turns, but I'd still retal you eventually, like I always have, even as recently as two sets ago (believe you were #79)

http://www.eestats.com/express/oldcountry/683/75

Yes, you did retalled me. I didnt have time to play on Friday night onwards, so I didnt get to spend my turns. But good retal anyway.

if you're gonna limit yourself to only hit 'safe' countries ONCE... you'll only gonna end up at 15-16k acres, and that acreage is only good for techers.

you were still active when I took my retal!

2014-08-29 21:33:07 PS how does th (#75) All Explore (#79) 1955A (2785A)
2014-08-29 20:09:42 PS All Explore (#79) Market (#121) 179A (347A)
2014-08-29 20:08:52 PS All Explore (#79) Suyamora (#120) 185A (421A)
2014-08-29 20:07:51 PS All Explore (#79) Blow Stock to Retal (#125) 224A (407A)
2014-08-29 18:47:45 PS All Explore (#79) KILL (#81) DH
2014-08-29 18:01:52 PS All Explore (#79) PuzzleBox (#92) 103A (263A)
2014-08-29 18:00:34 PS All Explore (#79) GrenanderA (#136) 261A (553A)

anyway though, I actually agree a bit, i do make risky hits too sometimes and just say "ah what the hell, let's try it," just to take the chance to get some land. if those are the people who retal me then im like "fluff i shouldve known better" afterwards haha. Another thing you can do though to get 20k acres is explore more at the beginning~

yeap, thats why I said good retal.

Every hit is risky in express.

i appreciate those who send me message saying retal because that lets me know it wasn't just a hit so i dont accidently ror :)

ror is bad... mmkay

Also in my case check food and oil on the market.... to many fools hit others not realizing stuff on the market pure recall to burn turns :P

While my superhuman skills are impressive and irreplicable... I learned that lesson.

LOL