SOL+Evo+MONSTERS vs SoF+RIVAL+LaF.
http://earthgraphs.com/...b82a7217b458fc3f7681227d0

SOL+Evo+MONSTERS vs SoF+RIVAL.
http://earthgraphs.com/...8e6be216cb282b6f3954d02c7

RAGE vs DANGER
http://earthgraphs.com/...685ca1c55f6b4cbf248c1e279

duna you're such a fluffing fluff.

Why is he that anoniem.

I love you yoo anoniem:)

because all he does is complain about how the mechanics of the game are so bad. let's see duna make his own game and see how well that goes - that's assuming he's even capable?

kewl!!!! thanks!!!!

well i have to agree with duna and i think half of the ppl on alliance servers do, the new implements sux. and will ruin warring.

^ as said

thanks Duna :)

where is the WAR DEC?

http://forums.earthempires.com/...anyone-wanting-to-war-sof

thank goodness for all the intelligent people that play this game. i mean how would qzjul cope without your apprehensible suggestions.

lol

Warring was already broken. There definitely will need to be adjustments to these changes but at least it's something different from what things have been.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha this is epic :D Good luck Sol/EVO.

why don't you suggest better warring formula?

I see monsters are also participating too. So 3 clans against one eh?

Now the countdown until someone else joins..

everyone is invited.

Lol Sof has no room to whine about a gang bang,

Cry more syko

Agreed.

guess since none of the clans are "great" warring clans, it's bout even or so?

Stop pretending to be so angry Anoniem. Every post the last month!

But I love you. And only you.

ICN set this whole thing up. So obvious.

Yes! My good heart has broken the ice!

I don't understand the above statement. I am fairly certain this oop FS was planned well before those changes were announced...

Actually, I think the changes are making the OOP FS look much worse than before.

Part of the rational behind some of these changes was to discourage oop fs . And now you can start the conspiracy that my contribution was to help protect sof :p seriously though, we are watching the stats to assess the changes

hmm i'm not playing in SoF this set, I wasn't crying either, just making a statement, well the numbers as stands is 100 from the other side and about 76 for SoF. So yes the numbers are larger you fools. But I remember when we beat MD when they had a larger memberbase, so no I don't attribute this too numbers. It's not always about quantity it's about quality, and ever since I came back to playing this game the MD, SoL, Evo, Pdm etc etc have not been the side with quality. From a netting standpoint your side does have quantity and quality just to be fair so you don't get the idea that I am always hating on your side.

you shouldn't assume.. whose the dumb fluff now? YOU!!!

now go pick up something hard and begin conducting self punishment by hitting yourself in the head, and I want you to say. "Bad Dobby" about 7 times! GO!!! you may start now!!!

Kinda easy answer.
1a: at turn 200 you have about 10-30K pop. Its just about 250 hits to fast kill, wich is just a bit more than it was before. In term of hits its alot better to kill with 50 hits more than 300 hits more.
1b: also, in terms of loses, its alot better to lose 1.1K instead of 1K than 11K instead of 10K.

Both this changes makes it better to declare war right OOP than waiting longer to increase numbers.




Sry, you failed. All this changes makes OOP FS alot better than waiting.

Not necessarily Duna. The countries that are killed barely spent 200-300 turns each.

There are 1921 hits on 8 non-land killed countries with 88k civilians slaughtered.

This equates to 237 hits per kill, on countries that average to 11k pop each. This means the countries killed had about 1.4k acres, because each acre of land supports about 8 pop without res tech/buildings.

The kill runs averaged 54 seconds for 6 of the 8 countries that took shorter than 5 minutes to kill, so almost all 6 of them had nearly full pop-DR in effect.

The other 2 countries took "28 minutes" and "10 hours" (in quote to avoid being read as 10h 28m) to kill and took 215 averaged hits to kill an averaged 8.4k pop.

The earlier 237 averaged hits means it took about 553 turns to kill a country that has barely spent 200-300 turns in total. Although this is arguably less hits than it would take to FS a week later in the reset, economics wise, it wasn't worth it, because 3 days later, those killed countries would be back to where they were before.

Hm. So, you are confirm my words and not agreeing with me??? I dont understand it. The only point you are giving is 553 turns to kill 200-300 turn taken country. Yes, thats true, its stupid to kill under 500 turns taken countries, but ONLY if you have other choices. If all countries are 200-300 turns, its ok to kill such countries. At this point you are not rly waste turns, because you are making turns and get some profit instead of no profit on restarts (200 turns taken restarts a kinda same as pure starters). Average grow will be better.



Also, i forgot to tell, its alot harder to wall at this point, because you cant buy even 100K troops/turrets in case of attacks. And rebreak 10K instead of 100K also brings us to 1b with its loses.

I'm saying it would probably have been better to wait 1 week more and then FS. Killing 10 countries then would be a bigger setback to SoF than killing 10 countries now.

As it is, all SoF has lost is 10 countries x 200 turns, compared to 10 countries x 700 turns next week.

It is all comparative, breaks and walling scale up with country growth, so comparing 10k breaks now with 100k breaks next week doesn't even make sense, because in the next week, all countries probably makes 10x as much goods anyway.

Don't forget that sof knew this was coming, and if we waited, we'd be the ones eating the fs :/

This is probably the best reason. Just serves to highlight how important FSes are, and that they still need to be weakened. Qz has decided not to implement a number of different suggestions to weaken FSes though.

wrong move. its like the movie Zero Dark Thirty.

"Human Error"

But the problem is that in a week it would be max 3-7 countries (depends on how active target they pick).



And thats again kinda wrong. After 700 turns its not hard to get 500K troops & 500K turrets. Lets be realistic and say nw will give about 10% extra to break. And as break always alot of oversend lets say you need 1M min total to break 500K. +10% = 1.1M. Also, lets say you make 100M/day (maybe a bit less, but i want round numbers). So, 100K extra troops is about 13M cash (+oil) and its about 15% daily production.
OOP production is about 5M/day. If break is 10K, than you need about 20K to break and hence 2K extra, wich is like 260K cash, wich is just 5% of daily production.
And the longer you wait, the more money will drain this change (and i have to say, the more will be nw difference and hence this 10% extra will be like 20-50% extra).

I don't think early FSes need to stop. I believe attacking is too weak after the changes. This early FS is futile as countries will struggle to grow. SoF is not focussing on killing yet because it will achieve nothing.

However, your argument is flawed.

During an FS, you generally don't kill the countries with high defense. You pick the low defense ones to get fast kills. There are people right now with 100k turrets and troops, but they would obviously not have been picked for killing during yesterday's FS.

So comparing a well-prepared 500k troop country next week vs a unprepared 10k troop now isn't even good comparison. If the FS was next week, the FS would have taken out all the easy 50k-100k low defense unprepared ones.

It applies only for blindFS. When SoF told they will war with SoL, there will be no unprepared countries (or they will be kinda low active).

At time of FS, it was about 250-300 turns (depends on bonuses and such things). Ofc you can make 100K troops on commie in 250 turns. But alot of ppl are mono with like 500-2K farms or even labs and so on. They are low break and will be low break for a few next days. At turn 700 even if you find some low def countries, they will buy up 500K asap. And well, when i told 500K, i was telling about average break, not max.

Ok i just have to intervene here... this logic is flawed Xinhuan from more points of view:

1. We all knew that a big war is coming so most countries would have been and would have had a lot of defense

2. In a FS you don't take out only low defense targets ... you pick strategically important ones 2 thus ppl that know how to play and there is a chance they'll come wall and in 1 week as Duna pointed out everyone would have money on hand to buy up 100k troops so imagine that night now when you don't have the money to buy up you get 240 hits/kill in 1 week if a target comes to wall with the new changes that amount of hits will double if not triple

3. A FS done in a week or 2 will be mostly based on Commy/Indy breakers that woul be at least 5-10 times bigger in NW compared to the countryes that they are breaking so refering to 1.b in the changes made imagin the losses they would have.

From the 3 points above it's pretty clear that an early war... something like oop would be much more beneficial than a later 1 where it would take more hits to kill a country and the losses would be much larger for the attacking side.

Points taken, Soultaker/Duna.

I think the NW changes will have the biggest impact...

will have the biggest impact on what?

on hitting and breaking he means 1.b

Your mum.

Thank you! lol... at least I'm not the only one who is seeing that...

I actually would like to implement some suggestions, but the ones I had on my plate were more complicated in implementation than I had time for this reset =/

I like your stored-turns/attack-subtraction one, for instance, but the exact implementation and consequences I just want to math out & think about, given turns are the fundamentals of the game...

Also i like fooglmog's war weariness idea, but again, that's a lot of implementation...

At least im not the only one who is seeing OOP FS:)