i.e. the standard definition of farming in 1a

internal grabbing is two countries in a clan, where one hits the other

the news clearly shows that happening before you hit me

defends cause DR too btw folks, this isn't 2025 anymore, where defends didn't cause DR

your right about internal grabbing, my point is that its different than internal farming. had we been using internal farming i would agree with you that it wouldnt be fair to hit you after. were talking about a one time thing for one successful grab to settle an FA matter.

your also right that defends do cause dr. attacks also reduce dr. dr doesnt affect returns unless there is more than 1 hit, this is what I have been told. Im not positive about it but i have heard it from multiple people. Plus this would only matter if i was still in DR when you took your retal which i wasnt. so again your point is invalid.

2 defends
-1attack
=1dr (which doesnt affect returns)

llaar you are so ignorant it hurts. Honestly, it hurts me to get off my laf bashing wagon to speak with you (just kidding Hanlong... kind of). You obviously can't follow the logic that everyone but you has posted in this thread, and you are trying to use policies that NA doesn't have, to make silly hits based on policies that still don't fit from a server we're not even on, and from clans that apparently don't exist any more because their policies were fluffy.

I think I finally understand why so many people have jumped ship from NA. It's you llaar, you're killing NA. Kudos.

Come on war already

no more NA members need post here.
mods you could probably delete this garbage also.

-cgr4

Actually you guys are wrong.

Attacks take off normal DR, but not ghost acres DR, so llaar got 70% of the amount of ghost acres he was supposed to get (or 80%...).


That is why players can no longer exchange hits with each other all day long and make countries with a billion acres (llaar would know), only the first 10 or so hits create ghost.
1-2 create 100% of ghost
3 creates 80 or 70%
4-5 create 50%
6-7 create 30%
8 creates 20%
9-10 create 10%

The rest makes nothing.

I could be wrong in the numbers, and %, but I learned to land trade in ffa and I was told to only exchange 2 hits a day for max ghost gains.

So llaar is right about getting less land than the amount he was supposed to get (20 or 30%) less ghost.

Can I make a suggestion? Get 2 Def allies and have adequate defense for stocking period as a fat country, (prolly 5m turrets at this point)

*Shrugs and strolls away*

BTW: Would this be such a situation if...

Clan a: Country A
Clan b: Country B
Clan c: Country C
Clan d: Country D

B hit s A and fails the hit.
C hits A and is successful! (Huzzah!)

Both B and C are too big for A to retal so he puts those hits on FA board for someone else to take. Wanting some land back, he goes shopping in the news feed and finds D: Nice juicy target who can retal back.

A hits D.

D now has a 48 hour window to retal.

*Shrugs* I don't know, I don't see the big deal here personally. If a country was deliberately down in like, 5 hits in DR caused by clanmates then starts grabbing, yeah, that's a problem. 2 hits in a short period with the defender going out and hitting what, 17 hours later? No... DRs drop after 24 hours. Hold your turns and retal after DRs drop...

*Runs away before being flamed to BBQ crisp*

Ghost acre benefits don't get counted in results of retals that is a bonus acres is acres that's it.

There isn't a big deal in this case, but I could artificially create the conditions llaar described.


Clan a: Country A
Clan b: Country B
Clan c: Country C
Clan d: Country D

COuntry A: RoR B
B Retals A L:L+1
Country A: RoR B
B Retals A L:L+2
Country A: RoR B
B Retals A L:L+3

Country A now has 5k acres and makes a normal hit on C and D, getting 9k acres total(+Ghost) now A has 18k land and jumps his defense 600%, good luck getting the land back on L:L.

and don't tell me FA contact needs to be made because technically by none of our policies something wrong happened (maybe PDM could use our 2 step clausule and get the land from someone else in the clan), at the most L:L is what is applied here, yet getting the 9k acres is going to take a while and will hurt a fluff ton, while clearly B gets ahead of everyone else... could be a nice way to screw with some clan/countries possible top 10s while boosting a friend.

Aw fluff!!!

I wonder who will be the first to try to do that ;)

yeah I know, it is possible to do it, and it doesn't even need to be intra tag farming... and this better not start with people claiming fluff about topfeeds because if an all explore on 14k acres hits a fat bastard on 60k acres that is the fat bastard problem, now when a country land is artificially reduced (using whatever) and it hits a fat country with nice defense, there is a problem.

Actually, you are entirely wrong.

http://wiki.earthempires.com/...x.php/Diminishing_Returns

The first three hits provide the same gains for regular acres and ghost. Even if llaar hit immediately after he was first hit, he would have gained the same. The player who attacked him was not in any DR that changed gains.

13 hits in a row under the new system:
acres gained = 1.0 * (base acres + 1.0 * ghost acres)
acres gained = 1.0 * (base acres + 1.0 * ghost acres)
acres gained = 1.0 * (base acres + 1.0 * ghost acres)
acres gained = 0.8 * (base acres + 0.8 * ghost acres)
acres gained = 0.8 * (base acres + 0.8 * ghost acres)
acres gained = 0.5 * (base acres + 0.5 * ghost acres)
acres gained = 0.5 * (base acres + 0.5 * ghost acres)
acres gained = 0.35 * (base acres + 0.35 * ghost acres)
acres gained = 0.35 * (base acres + 0.35 * ghost acres)
acres gained = 0.15 * (base acres + 0.15 * ghost acres)
acres gained = 0.15 * (base acres + 0.15 * ghost acres)
acres gained = 0.15 * (base acres + 0.15 * ghost acres)
acres gained = 0.10 * (base acres + 0.0 * ghost acres)

thats the table for ghost, so yeah tertius is right, llaar got no reduced gains

My bad!!! Is not like I was trying to get both sides to war in a last dich attempt to get my fluff sold, but sadly they came back unsold, so I have to resort to the black market or lose turns while waiting them to sell.

Llarr, KSF is considering your offer about reps. I know some are likely talking privatley but I am staying out of it and this is in response to your PMs about donating your country.

First off so many sets have been ruined. i personally am a parking lot, i have 35k unbuilt land. i switched govs to dict (bpt is now 29 lol)to drop land and prep for a war. a war that you were fine having until after you suicided us. you and your clan should be held accountable for that and there is no way donating your county alone will make up for it. you know how much stocking time+rebuilding+etc.etc.etc... was lost. just calculating individually how much reps would be owed to all involved would not even be worth it IMO.

On the same token i hate to drag people who are uninvolved into something they want no part of. it also takes a lot to "apologize" (if you even did) and give up your country to protect the interests of your friends. Maybe it was too late at that point but either way I can respect it. I dont make the decisions here, if it were up to me i would likely war you. As president you speak for your clan with your actions; those actions said war. But I am keeping my opinion out of this and letting others decide since my involvment makes me somewhat biased.

I will say i could have handled the situation better myself instead of escalating it and am sorry for that. my feelings were if you can take retals with no FA contact why cant I? and that thinking is wrong. at some point someone has to stop and say "this is going nowhere, how will this affect my fellow clanmates." I dont think we did that here and we should both learn from this.

Actually this is wrong, nor are you the only KSF to have said this incorrectly. You really should review your posted retal policy.

As per NA recent changed retal policy posted here: http://forums.earthempires.com/...icy-on-reverse-2-stepping NA will mirror the attacker retal policy. In this case KSF posted retal policy states:

LANDGRABS IN LAST 3 WEEKS OF SET

All Landgrabs made in the last 3 weeks of the set will be retalled 150%
L:L (before ghost acres) due to disruption of stock time and/or loss of stock. If larger stocks are lost due to a grab within this timeframe, we reserve the right to increase this policy as we see fit.

Now since I am new to this community standard policies and terms .. not entirely sure what 150% means but I read that as 1 LG gets 1.5 retals ... or maybe 150% of total land. If the first then yes second retal was warranted. If not then first hit got back 150% so should have stopped there. However....

Second part then states "we reserve right to increase this policy as we see fit" So technically, Llaar increased this to 2:1 as they seen fit for this non-standard issue.

I definitely agree though that since this was an unusual circumstance that this should have been discussed between the FA PRIOR to the retals, especially to explain why and how retals were going to be different as the "per we see fit".

Whether this is the real reason, or whether the outcome would have been different or not is really irregardless. Any clan can come up with lame reasons after. All any other clans can see is that a country had been hit by internal clan country and than less than 24 hours later did an LG. Now even though I personally would tend to believe your stated reason of what happened .. to avoid such issues like this you simple just
do
not
do it.

resolved.

cgr4

Hey Hawkster, you bring up an interesting point, but 1) the original hit was not in the last three weeks of the set 2) NA did not try to use that as a reason for the hits. Also, irregardless is not a formal word (pointing that out to people is a personal quirk of mine). Regardless, the situation seems to have been resolved by FAs so I guess discussing more doesn't matter to much anyways.